Sunday Oct. 4th #MAE98 IRC LOG with Kermit on ICOA and Carl Sassenrath on REBOL.

IRC Log by Timothy Rue [ThreeSEAS] [TBARS]

--> ][ You have joined channel #mae98.

«Topic» ][ Topic for channel #mae98 is Webcam: http://ugn.amiga.org/webcam, Audio: ugn.amiga.org/events/audio.shtml, 3.5 will be coming 1st Q 99

«Topic» ][ Topic for channel #mae98 has been set by TB on 11:32:44 04-10-1998

«Names» ][ Users on #MAE98: ThreeSEAS teq blastman Sunfield Cade alex Arvid alanwall @aTciv @TB TasCiv Merko _bladez_ Bored matt taza mrpop Zap UltraGelb Manowar2 xantigrav REBoL PaulN Harv Wendell pekr spock1 Senex XL Adrian Steini gefloc Warden13 MoonZulie Ashke2 Z0 DrWho DelSig Brewster Cryto newlook

«Names» ][ End of /NAMES list.

«Mode» ][ Current modes for #MAE98: topic protection, no messaging

«Mode» ][ Channel #MAE98 was created on 08:02:43 02-10-1998

Merko ][ Cryto: Someone is making a new "atari" yes.. with 040 and soon even 060, they say.

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Harv ][ eeeek! is that newlook!?

Cryto ][ Merko: Wow...

* ][ newlook denies it

Manowar2 ][ something similiar to Boxer68k

Sunfield ][ newlook: hello...

--> ][ NoMaaM (kees@kabelm1-59.rendo.dekooi.nl) has joined this channel.

newlook ][ heh

newlook ][ damnit where's skyguy :)

newlook ][ hey sunfield

TB ][ This new Atarai us an Atari clone, its basicly the BoXeR of the Atari world, cept it costs like 3x more.

Warden13 ][ In fact, I think that good PPC development is vital to the future of the Amiga. If current Amiga users can get excellent PPC apps over the next 2 years they will be less likely to leave the market before AmigaNG is ready

Harv ][ mommie!! that scary man is staring at me!

* ][ newlook is being forced to use *cough* AmIRC *ack spit*

_ego ][ TB: New Atari?

Merko ][ Manowar2: I heard that webpage is rather hyped though..

Manowar2 ][ warden13:you`re right...and Amiga Inc finally saw that fact

Warden13 ][ 040 Atari with PCI for around $900 US

blastman ][ My Kingdom for a Vlab...

* ][ Sunfield have never tried an Atari, never seen one, but it seems to me that an Amiga with a midi-interface is just as good for music...

TasCiv ][ newlook geez finally using a real irc client instead of some hack :)

TB ][ Its not a new atari, its an atari clone. Atari died years ago, and only thier name exists on some games company which has nothing to do with Atari computers

Senex ][ _ego: www.milan-computers.de

Merko ][ blastman: My Kingdom is freely downloadable anyway, I don't think anyone will change. ;D

_ego ][ I kind of like the Atari. The GUI is really naff, but still :)

_ego ][ Senex: Thanks :)

«Quit» ][ DelSig (dsoccoli@ppp11.ts.spin.it) has signed off (Client exiting).

Harv ][ mmm.. one of the men in black is standing at that pole under the light

* ][ newlook smacks Harv

Warden13 ][ Manowar2: I have a PPC and given an option between continued support for it, especially an updated OS, and a PC Upgrade I would stick with my PPC. If there is no development for the PPC it makes it more difficult for me to do the work I need to do on my Amiga

Merko ][ I wonder what makes the Milan an "Atari" though.. the hardware? No. The OS? Ehh, which OS?-)

blastman ][ Isn't Vlab what your webcam is hooked to?

Harv ][ lookit that guy in the white shirt. he won't buy anything.

Manowar2 ][ merko:TOS

Cade ][ harv maybe he will steal?

Cade ][ eek, scarry man

Harv ][ another looky loo. they pick it up, scrutinize it, and put it back down

blastman ][ Wanna buy a DCTV?

«Quit» ][ Senex (senex@pppa95.hildesheim.sgh-net.de) has signed off (Demo timeout).

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«Quit» ][ Bored (~laire@193.174.12.209) has signed off (Ping timeout for Bored[193.174.12.209]).

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Cryto ][ blastman: I have a DCTV already. :)

Cade ][ so how many ppl attended this show,

Warden13 ][ At the risk of opening a can of worms...Has anybody seen any of the newer QuakePPC programs?

alanwall ][ Guy in the white shirt was at AmiWest and robbed Kermit :)

Cade ][ below 100 more?

Kermit enters.

«Nick» ][ newlook is now known as Kermit.

Cade ][ welcome kermit

Warden13 ][ Cade: I was there yesterday and saw a good amount of people. I'm sure there are more today

Kermit ][ he'll be sitting here in a minute.

Cade ][ warden woopee

Carl Sassenrath enters.

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Cade ][ welcome back carl

_bladez_ ][ hi carl

_ego ][ Spooky, Kermit speaking to us when he's not there ;)

Cryto ][ HI Carl

Merko ][ Warden13: Yes. It works great nowadays.

Senex ][ Any other interesting, non-AI news at the show?

alanwall ][ alanwall welcome Carl :)

_bladez_ ][ look familiar ...

_bladez_ ][ 1.0.0.1 (Amiga 680x0)

_bladez_ ][ TM & Copyright 1998 REBOL Technologies Inc. All rights reserved.

_bladez_ ][ Send bugs to bugs@rebol.com

_bladez_ ][ Loading %rebol.r ...

_bladez_ ][ Loading %/usr/user.r

_bladez_ ][ REBOL top level.

Carl ][ Hello Amigans, it's very good to be back. Whew!

_bladez_ >> ][ do %/usr/scripts/examples/sendmail.r

_bladez_ ][ =)

Kermit ][ I am here

blastman ][ Anybody there selling Vlab cards?

Cade ][ senex well i think that fleecy announced that his small toe has grown a little fungus and he needs to clean it before it gets infects?

* ][ TB looks for some extra ops

NoMaaM ][ :))

Carl ][ Hello Kermit.... sorry I forgot your gold pen. Noticed it after the box shipped.

Manowar2 ][ Everybody hail 3 times for CARL

«Quit» ][ Warden13 (Warden@d27.focal9.interaccess.com) has signed off (Demo timeout).

Senex ][ Cade: Let's hope it's not becoming BIG... =)

blastman ][ Carl ???

matt ][ hey Carl.

Cade ][ senex i hope not,

xantigrav ][ Hi Carl

Kermit ][ I'm billing you for that pen Carl. Since it uses real gold the bill will be for $350.00 Thanks! ;)

_ego ][ Carl: So whats stage too of the REBOL plan then? :)

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xantigrav ][ Hi Kermit

--> ][ _I\__ (jrrt@asy45.as05.apl1.superonline.com) has joined this channel.

Cade ][ congrats on rebol

Sunfield ][ who am I seeing on the mae webcam now?

«Quit» ][ Z0 (~boah@ad13-004.arl.compuserve.com) has signed off (Demo timeout).

Kermit ][ Anyone want to know about the ICOA stuff or has someone posted the text of the announcement already?

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Cade ][ kermit i have not heard anything

_ego ][ Kermit: Well I haven't heard it yet :)

Olorin ][ What is webcam URL?

xantigrav ][ It is great you finally got Rebol out Carl

Manowar2 ][ kermit:we want to know

blastman ][ http://ugn.amiga.org/webcam/cam.jpg

Cade ][ kermit please enlighten us

Cade ][ hehe

Sunfield ][ Olorin: http://ugn.amiga.org/webcam/

«OP» ][ TB gives channel operator status to TasCiv

_bladez_ ][ carl: keep up the good work with rebol :)

Steini ][ kermit: please tell :-)

Manowar2 ][ Please moderate

Arvid ][ .

Wendell ][ Kermit: Haven't heard anything yet...

Carl ][ Kermit... Real gold! Hmmmmm.

TB ][ Kerm: Wanna go moderated?

Cade ][ go for it tb

xantigrav ][ Kermit: I need to know about any developer stuff that went on.

«Voice» ][ TB gives voice to Kermit

Kermit ][ In short the ICOA is focusing on being a professional society of and for developers. ...

Warden13 ][ Kermit: Thanks for the neat pencil yesterday!!

«Voice» ][ TB gives voice to Carl

«Mode» ][ TB changes channel modes to moderated

TB ][ Its all yours.

Kermit ][ ICOA's new web site will provide a huge repository of information of value to developers ...

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Kermit ][ including software and hardware sdk, faqs, publishing information, marketing information, how-tos and far more.

«Quit» ][ Harv (hrlaser@netcom2.netcom.com) has signed off (Read error to Harv[netcom2.netcom.com]: EOF from client).

«OP» ][ TB gives channel operator status to _bladez_

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Kermit ][ Our future plans include moving towards a comprehensive newsletter/cdrom that will provide development information as well as all the other issues developers can use information on.

Kermit ][ We plan for this to complement the development efforts of AI - and not to duplicate them.

Kermit ][ Questions?

Kermit ][ ga

TB ][ Ok people.... if you have a question heres what to do.

TB ][ msg _bladez_ with a "?" and you'll go into the que.

TB ][ Please have your questions ready and type GA when your question is finished.

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TB ][ Ker: Ok, should have a que building now :)

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Manowar2

Manowar2 ][ 1) What are your plans for OS3.5 and then for OS5.0 2)Will u add PPC support to ImageFX with the release of OS3.5 68k/ppc GA

Lost connection:

«Time» ][ kth.se.amiganet.org 907522535 0 :Sunday October 4 1998 -- 19:35 +02:00

--> ][ You have joined channel #mae98.

«Topic» ][ Topic for channel #mae98 is Webcam: http://ugn.amiga.org/webcam, Audio: ugn.amiga.org/events/audio.shtml, 3.5 will be coming 1st Q 99

«Topic» ][ Topic for channel #mae98 has been set by TB on 11:38:33 04-10-1998

«Names» ][ Users on #MAE98: TBARS NightSpd Dave MoonZulie etois DrFraggle laire kei fleg Harv BCampbell SlamDunk BitBucket Warden13 Ref +Carl TheBerr Senex Obider Olorin NoMaaM _ego teq blastman Sunfield Arvid alanwall +Kermit Cryto Brewster DrWho Ashke2 gefloc Steini Adrian XL spock1 pekr Wendell PaulN REBoL xantigrav Manowar2 UltraGelb Zap @TB mrpop taza matt @_bladez_ Merko @Tasmaniac @aTmosh

«Names» ][ End of /NAMES list.

«Mode» ][ Current modes for #MAE98: moderated, topic protection, no messaging

«Mode» ][ Channel #MAE98 was created on 08:02:43 02-10-1998

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«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to xantigrav

xantigrav ][ Is she on IRC?

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xantigrav ][ Will NewTek be part of ICOA or at least get developer in to them?

«Quit» ][ Obider (68481@login1.sol.no) has signed off (regrouping; bbiab).

TB ][ xan: ga?

«Quit» ][ SlamDunk (Marrandy@dt151nc4.tampabay.rr.com) has signed off (Read error to SlamDunk[dt151nc4.tampabay.rr.com]: Connection reset by peer).

xantigrav ][ It is very diffucult to get Toaster/Flyer developer info out of NewTek, I think it is because they are so busy.

xantigrav ][ GA

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Kermit ][ I can't speak for Newtek - but Ralph is here and was cool on this.

Kermit ][ ga

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«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from xantigrav

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Kermit ][ No. She's not on IRC. When asked, she said, "What's that?"

Kermit ][ ga

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TB ][ msg _bladez_ with a "?" and you'll go into the message que.

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to taza

«Quit» ][ Warden13 (Warden@d27.focal9.interaccess.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

taza ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from taza

Kermit ][ She can wait for her OWN IRC chat time. ;)

Kermit ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Arvid

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Kermit ][ ZZzzz...

Kermit ][ ;)

Tasmaniac ][ next

_bladez_ ][ arvid is up

«Quit» ][ Arvid (bobdavis@209.184.63.160) has signed off (Ping timeout for Arvid[209.184.63.160]).

_bladez_ ][ doh!

Tasmaniac ][ arvid is down :)

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_bladez_ ][ and he was the last one on the queue

TB ][ Ok, any more questions?

Tasmaniac ][ ok whose are the (ugly?) mugs o the cam?

Kermit ][ Bill - she'll call you when she gets home. That's AFTER the ransom is paid mind you.

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to SlamDunk

TB ][ msg _bladez_ with a "?" and you'll go into the message que.

Kermit ][ Okay. I'm outta here. I'm hungry. I haven't been able to get away from the booth. Once last question then.

«Quit» ][ Senex (senex@pppa95.hildesheim.sgh-net.de) has signed off (Ping timeout for Senex[pppa95.hildesheim.sgh-net.de]).

Kermit ][ ga

SlamDunk ][ Any more info on C++ and Java variants ? ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from SlamDunk

TB ][ Ok guys. Time for Carl :)

aTmosh ][ Thanks Kermit

Kermit ][ Outside of my expertise. I suspect, from what others working on this tell me, that there will be more info coming.

Kermit ][ See ya!!

Kermit ][ ga

«Nick» ][ Kermit is now known as NextOne.

Kermit Leaves.

TB ][ If you have a question for Carl please msg _bladez_ with a "?".

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Manowar2

TB ][ Carl being Carl Sassenrath, as Im sure most of you know.

«Quit» ][ Brewster (britim@dhack1-130.cybernex.net) has signed off (Read error to Brewster[dhack1- 130.cybernex.net]: Connection reset by peer).

Manowar2 ][ Carl:What do u think about Amiga`s new direction ? What`s your reaction to OS3.5..will Rebol support OS3.5 and OS5.0 in the future ? GA

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_bladez_ ][ queue is sunfield, pekr.

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Carl ][ Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the latest details of Amiga's new direction. I've had my nose to the grindstone for the last couple months, and probably wouldn't have known if San Francisco fell into the bay, but..

Carl ][ YES! We will support all future version of the Amiga.

«Voice» ][ aTmosh gives voice to Harv

Carl ][ Why? That's what non-amiga people ask me!? Did you notice that all the press regarding REBOL mentioned the Amiga?

Harv ][ can you tell us how many downloads of REBOL from your site yet (all versions and what % of each?) GA

Carl ][ That's because the Amiga is the ultimate rebel (REBOL) environment.

Carl ][ And, it really gets the pc-ers scratching their heads.

Carl ][ ga

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«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Sunfield

Sunfield ][ carl: after briefly reading thru the rebol documentation, I found Rebol quite similar to Perl... did you have any knowledge of perl when you started the work with rebol? And what are the main differences between rebol and perl?

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_bladez_ ][ sun: ga?

Sunfield ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from Sunfield

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Carl ][ I chuckle a little each time someone says "REBOL looks like XYZ". So far, the feed back we've been getting has said that...

Carl ][ REBOL looks like Smalltalk, java, logo, perl, python, lisp, scheme, self, rexx, and others.

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TB ][ ga?

Carl ][ Guess that's good. No REBOL isn't anything like PERL. You can create very simple scripts in REBOL, which are much more readable, but, REBOL is quite a powerful language, with first class continuations, etc.

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_bladez_ ][ the queue is nightspd,tb,dave,theberr.

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Carl ][ There's a lot to it, but the beauty is that you don't need to know that.

Carl ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to pekr

pekr ][ Hi Carl, congrats for REBOL release :-) So, here we go:

pekr ][ 1) when any rebol mailing list (newsgroups are available?)

pekr ][ 2) why examples on your web site are covering undocumented functions as pop-make for e.g. btw: btw: rebol/email-port and rebol/email-head don't exist anymore?

pekr ][ 3) natives - will it be possible to write some natives (plug-ins) in C language instead of rebol meta- language?

pekr ][ 4) as I talked to a few people trying to use rebol on Amiga - they are interested, if it will be possible with REBOL to do something with system and non rebol apps

pekr ][ 5) could you a little bit introduce Dialects

pekr ][ well, one more - what about proxy? :-)

pekr ][ GA

_bladez_ ][ pekr: big one :)

TB <][ yikes>

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from pekr

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_bladez_ ][ =)

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Carl ][ Ok.... many questions. Let me take a crack at em.

«Quit» ][ Olorin (Methlogin@indobok-121.mdm.mkt.execpc.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

Carl ][ 1) Mailing list will go online this week.

Carl ][ 1A) Would love to see a comp.lang.rebol... can you help us with it?

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Carl ][ 2) Yes there were a few last minute mixups in the examples. This will be fixed. The next release will be out in about a week.

Carl ][ 3) Natives will be in 2.0

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Carl ][ 4) 2.0 as well.

Carl ][ 5) Yes, much more on Dialects needs to be written, because they are the true power behind the language, and the reason why it is so useful for so many things... that is...

Carl ][ Problems should be solved in a variant of the language that best fits the solution, not the language!

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Carl ][ 5A) Proxy. Sorry, we had it, then lost it. Will continue to work on it. Unfortunately, we're still looking for a great networking person to join us.

Carl (][ Hint to the group)

Carl ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to NightSpd

NightSpd ][ Carl: Where do you see Rebol? Where does it fit? (I've heard at least two dozen, okay so WTF do I do with it emails). What would you suggest writing as a "first Rebol project" so as to acquaint oneself with something beyond "Hello World"? (Love it. Love it...) GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from NightSpd

_bladez_ ][ queue is tb,dave,theberr,teq

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Carl ][ Leverage.

«Nick» ][ Gemini is now known as [GemAway].

Carl ][ It's all about expression leverage. That is, why write 100 pages if 20 can solve the problem.

Carl ][ How do you get leverage?

Carl ][ Does OOL give it to you?

Carl ][ I started in OOL back in '82 with a lang called Smalltalk which we were alpha testing for Xerox PARC.

Carl ][ I thought it was great. I became an OOL-head.

Carl ][ I told everyone everywhere that OOL was the future.

Carl ][ I wrote several OOLs (object oriented languages, for those who need to know)

Carl ][ Even the great-grand-daddy of REBOL was an OOL with multiple inheritance and dynamic inheritance.

Carl ][ But then the bubble burst.

Carl ][ I wasn't seen the productivity that I thought could happen.

_bladez_ ][ queue is tb,dave,theberr,teq,nightspd

Carl ][ My programs were not shorter or easier.

Carl ][ So, I began to think about what programming is.

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Carl ][ And, I discovered for myself that it is not as scientific or natural as we'd all like to believe.

Carl ][ Programming in OO does not mimic nature.

Carl ][ A chair at my desk, when told to move to the table, does nothing.

«Quit» ][ blastman (blastman@ppp-029.m2-1.syr.ican.net) has signed off (Client exiting).

Carl ][ We humans live in our minds.

Carl ][ So, it came to me...

Carl ][ It's about expression!

Carl ][ And, in human langs, how do we express? We adapt the language as we need...

Carl ][ doctors talk in medical terms, engineers in engineering terms, etc.

«Quit» ][ UltraGelb (pofgarow@194.64.176.123) has signed off (Sauerkraut in die Lederhosen).

Carl ][ The grammar and vocabulary change to best fit the communications.

«Quit» ][ laire (~laire@193.174.12.210) has signed off (A friendly Alien beams me into its comfortable hyperspace bubble.).

Carl ][ So, it occurred to me that a highly adaptive language was needed.... something that really could be molded into the domain of the problem.

Carl ][ Why express a GUI in C or C++ or Java? That's insane. Why not express it in terms of a GUI?

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Carl ][ So that's what REBOL is all about. There's a long way to go. A lot to be said and a lot to be discovered. But, if we are ever going to reach the stars.... sorry, it's not with Visual C++.

Carl ][ ga

TB ][ 1) If I made a rebol script, and wanted its code protected from prying

TB ][ eyes, will there be support for some kind of protection?

TB ][ 2) Will there be Visual tools and other such tools for rebol eventualy?

TB ][ 3) How do you feel about Unis teaching rebol?

TB ][ 4) Do you know of any big rebol developments going on by other companies?

TB ][ 5) Are you familar with Jade (http://www.jade.co.nz), if so, what do you

TB ][ think of it?

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TB ][ GA

Carl ][ Ok, several answers...

Carl ][ 1) Eventually. But at first REBOL is open. That's the first rule, sharing, evolution, the Cath. and Baazar.

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_bladez_ ][ hi ta

Carl ][ There is going to be a lot of exchange going on before everyone knows how to best write REBOL apps. But, in time there will be some encryption capabilities for allowing private scripts to be written.

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Carl ][ REBOL can be encrypted just as any other text.

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_bladez_ ][ queue is dave,theberr,teq,nightspd

Carl ][ 2) Our plan calls for a product called REBOL/Author, but that happens after REBOL/Media. The authoring product may be something similar to AmigaVision in various ways... because, after all, REBOL symbols can be expressed as words or as icons.

Carl ][ 3) We think highly of anyone teaching REBOL, and will do our best to help you with it.

«Quit» ][ Ref (the_grey@dialup093-pri01.antnet.net.tr) has signed off (I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means ME!).

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Carl ][ 4) Not yet, but we've been contacted by a few. We're still pretty small company (10 people) to handle all of what's happening to us right now. Our web server has gone crazy...

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Carl ][ 5) I may have glanced at Jade at one point... but, I've looked at hundreds of languages over the years, and I don't recall its details. The REBOL design path

Carl ][ was not not arbitrary. It is based in some pretty deep theory of denotational semantics, and many many lessons of languages that I've learned over 20 years.

Carl ][ This is a "closet novel" which has been brewing for a long, long time.

Carl ][ GA

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«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Dave

Dave ][ Do you see a compiled (as in C) or transpiled (as in SQL) or JIT compiled (as in Java) Rebol in the future?

Dave '][ who invented Frobid(). why was it used as a general locking mechanism'

_bladez_ ][ queue is theberr,teq,nightspd,atmosh.

_bladez_ ][ ga?

Dave ][ oh yeah.. over.

Carl ][ 1) Compiling relative expressions is an interesting problem. However, we have thought of a way to dynamically compile certain types of expressions...

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from Dave

Carl ][ In fact, we think "compile" will just be another function of the language, used as necessary to improve the speed of various functions.

Carl ][ However, there are many types of expressions that are meaningless to compile.

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Carl ][ Forbid() was invented by me.... and was designed for very low level functions of the OS that needed quick locks. It was not designed for applications in general, as messages and semaphores should be used in such cases.

«Quit» ][ MoonZulie (Tralfaz@tssar1-11.gate.net) has signed off (Redneck state of the art: FTP server on a zip disk).

Carl ][ Forbid had a VERY FAST mechansim to achieve the lock, but still allow scheduling attention to occur after the lock was released.

«Quit» ][ Wiz (~Simone@guts1-08.pn.ITnet.it) has signed off (Changing server, lag is after me...).

Carl ][ This was done with a single bit in the paula interrupt register, that Glenn Keller gave me.

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Dave

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Carl (][ Glenn was the designer of paula).

Carl ][ GA

_bladez_ ][ go for it dave

Dave ][ did you expect it to be (over)used the way it was(ie for every thign for msgport to doslist etrc)

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Dave ][ over.

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from Dave

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«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to TheBerr

TheBerr ][ Carl: Great work on Rebol (I have already tried it on 4 different platforms) 1) Do you plan to release the Rebol SuperClass info soon (or this is private info) because I do have this REBOL/email-head problem too ? GA

Carl ][ No! It was not supposed to be used for that, just as Allocmem() was not supposed to be used for allocating memory. The problem was...

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from TheBerr

Carl ][ that the people who were working on the DOS and API layer of the OS (a company down in Arizona), blew it.

_bladez_ ][ queue is teq,nightspd,atmosh,harv,hesido,tb

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Carl ][ And the DOS/API that was to be, never happened. Then tripos stepped in. What a mess.

«Quit» ][ pyksy (pyksy@atlas.lukio.nivala.fi) has signed off (blah blah...).

_bladez_ ][ queue is teq,nightspd,atmosh,harv,hesido,tb,dave.

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Carl ][ TheBerr: I'll need to check into that.... and get back to you. But, yes, that should work and be better documented. I agree.

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to teq

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teq ][ Carl: are there any plans to add database stuff like ODBC support or facilitate SQL in some way?

teq ][ Oh, and where did user.r that was supposed to be in the archives go?

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teq ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from teq

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_bladez_ ][ queue is nightspd,atmosh,harv,hesido,tb,dave,piru.

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Carl ][ ODBC, SQL and other external interfaces will come. The focus from the start is just raw portability, which cannot be achieved if you let *anything* external inside. However, external interfaces are critically important to most of us (I'd like to control all the stuff around SassenRanch here), so they will happen! Prob 2.0

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Carl ][ User.r is an empty script. But it should have been there, and will be posted soon.

Carl (][ as an empty script, of course.)

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to NightSpd

NightSpd ][ Will Rebol support representation - as in the dog itself is represented by "a picture of a dog", which is represented by the string "Dog", which represents an instance of class dog in the system.... this part of language expression object ][= view ][= term ][= concept? (It sound like you hinted at this when you said "REB

NightSpd ][ OL/Author is... something similar to AmigaVision in various ways... because, after all, REBOL symbols can be expressed as words or as icons.") GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from NightSpd

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_bladez_ ][ queue is atmosh,harv,hesido,tb,dave,piru.

Carl ][ You're catching on. There will be some very interesting stuff written in REBOL. Perhaps natural language processing.... anyone?

Carl ][ Just an aside...

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Carl ][ I'd like to thank everyone for being so patient with us. It's been a long journey from Sep of 1996 when I started this, and I'd like to thank our alpha and beta testers, and everyone else whose been along with us.

Carl ][ Next question. GA

aTmosh ][ Carl: the compiler question was partly answered, but additionally: will it be done inhouse, and what priority does it have? It would be one way of protecting source as well as speeding things up of course.

aTmosh ][ On your comment that some things are not suited for compilation: some mechanism to externalize those parts maybe?

aTmosh ][ Re: newsgroup: creating comp.lang.rebol would be easy, you post an RFC/charter to the request group (comp.news.newsgroups or somesuch, I forget) and to relevant groups, after RFC period expires a vote is taken and group is created if carried (at least 50 people in favour

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to aTmosh

aTmosh ][ and more than a percentage for than against, or something like that). GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from aTmosh

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aTmosh ][ Thanks bladez :)

_bladez_ ][ =)

Carl ][ On the compiler...

«Quit» ][ Wiz (~Simone@guts1-08.pn.ITnet.it) has signed off (We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.).

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Carl ][ The problem is with the dynamics of the language. REBOL can be compiled, but it is its own meta language, and highly reflective, so a compiler can be a real pain. But, Joe loves writing this kind of stuff, and I know he's secretly figuring it out as we type.

Carl ][ On the newsgroup...

_bladez_ ][ queue is harv,hesido,tb,dave,piru,kolla.

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Carl ][ I've heard that this is the process... but we're so busy. If someone wants to get it started, we'll help, and we'll be there!

Carl ][ .

Carl ][ whoops. ... GA

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Carl (][ you can tell what kind of emailer I use often, eh?)

Harv ][ As a non-programmer (justa dumb user who likes stats) I'm just curious how the downloads have been, as % per platform? GA

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Carl ][ As of midnight Friday, there were 2300 downloads of Win32, and about 900 of Red Hat, 800+ of variouis other linux, and...

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Carl ][ 300 each of the rest, except the Amiga, which was not posted until late on Friday, and only had reached 44 downloads by that point (but, I expect that will change).

Carl ][ There were also many requests for AIX, IRIS, and HP UX versions.

Carl ][ GA

_bladez_ ][ queue is hesido,tb,dave,piru,kolla.

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to hesido

hesido (][ I don't know much programming, but I have to inform this) After just a quick run, Rebol crashed here.. I could run a script at last (without reading much of the manual, just learned the "do" command) . I ran sendemail.r , the console wanted me to enter text (that's what I thought)and as I didn't know what to write or to how to stop it, I pressed control + c, and rebol crashed!

hesido ][ now rebol complains about not enough memory, and "aborts abnormally" as there's no "top level" !

hesido ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from hesido

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Carl ][ Sounds like a pile of bugs ganged up on you at the same time. Please send them to bugs@rebol.com and we'll fix them right away. This is still very much a 1.0

Carl ][ .

Carl ][GA

_bladez_ ][ queue is tb,dave,piru,kolla.

TB ][ 1) Are you concerned that companies like MS will make thier own rebol

TB ][ cores, and end up like the MS Java situation?

TB ][ 2) Do you have any amusing stories about the developemnt of Rebol you can

TB ][ tell us?

«Quit» ][ BitBucket (103656.613@ad49-163.arl.compuserve.com) has signed off (Leaving).

TB ][ 3) A friend of mine thinks rebol is fake due to its small size (a PC user).

TB ][ Not realy a question, just thought you might like to know :)

TB ][ GA

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Carl ][ 1) Yes. R++, I can see it now. But, the question is, will they support it on the Amiga and all other platforms?

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Carl ][ 2) Amusing stories! Whew, the entire journey has been one. The biggest laugh is that whenever we think we've got a chance to take a quick break, we find there's even more to be done.

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_bladez_ ][ queue is dave,piru,kolla.

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Carl ][ 3) This is so funny. I was wondering if that was going to happen. We thought about putting it on CDROM... but it would fit on a floppy...

Carl ][ And, I think it should be a lot smaller, personally. That may even happen in future releases.

Carl ][ And, your friend's impression will change as the contributed user base builds. Also, the REBOL/media version will be much larger, due to the need for graphics, sound, etc.

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Carl ... ][ still here....

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_bladez_ ][ queue is dave,piru,kolla,taza.

_bladez_ ][ carl ga?

Carl ][ This idea that smaller means less capable is something I need to think about...

Carl ][ guess we could always pad it up to make it look important.

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Dave

TB ][ Carl: Perhaps 10megs worth of nulls in the core for Windows will make it more popular ;)

Dave '][ if allocmem was not to allocate memory and forbid was not to protect structures, what was? do you like the way amigaos has developed (a few useful programs & a bunch of hacks) why was your original ideas abandonded'

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Dave ][ over

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from Dave

_bladez_ ][ queue is dave,piru,kolla,taza,manowar.

Carl ][ TB: or, perhaps we could put the text for the Fountainhead in there, or something.

TB ][ :)

aTmosh ][ Include a Boing Ball Easter Egg

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«Nick» ][ NextOne is now known as onebit.

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_bladez_ ][ go dave

Dave ][ ta

Carl ][ Dave, no I did not like the way AmigaOS was programmed. I pleaded with management to not use it. Two of us (Neal Katin and myself) volunteered to put together an alternative in one month's time, but mgmt didn't go for it.

Dave ][ what would have been different if you had got your chance?

onebit ][ Hi Carl, It's Joe Torre here as "onebit".

_bladez_ ][ queue is piru,kolla,taza,manowar,nightspd.

Carl ][ Everything? I wrote a spec called CAOS, which had some pretty good stuff in it. For instance, it provided a namespace mapping to all of the Exec lists, as in:

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Carl ][ The path /system/interrupts/audio1 would have been a way to access the related interrupt on the exec list.

Dave ][ would you consider implmenting these ideas in a brand new operating system?

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Carl ][ Yes, but my OS ideas these days are even more advanced, and will require REBOL in order to be implemented, because other approaches would only hinder what really needs to happen. The big problem is that...

Carl ][ most OS designers these days don't realize that they are facing the same problems with many different "masks", that is,

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Carl ][ the ideas behind computation show themselves in many forms. For instance, name to value mapping is done everywhere in a system, but not consistently.

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Carl ][ You have file to content mapping, file to index mapping, name to process mapping, name to resource mapping, etc, etc, etc.

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Carl ][ All this must change. And will change.

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Carl ][ Most systems lack unity. They lack architecture.

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Piru

Piru (][ a to dave's q answered some bits already)

Piru ][ More about history *g*. Did this AllocMem mess also cause the fact that MEMF_PUBLIC was never used correctly? (this made implementation of vmem a bit hard)

Piru ][ I think MEMF_PUBLIC was supposed to indicate if memory block was to be swappable or not... right?

Piru ][ Also did you ever consider including good resource tracking to amigaos? (or was the original DOS and API layer supposed to have it?) TRIPOS DOS was so hairy it was almost impossible to hack it in (?)

Piru (][ oh sorry, I think this wasn't supposed to be history lecture.. ;-) Anyways I will look into REBOL, it seems very nice indeed.

Piru ][ GA

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_bladez_ ][ queue is kolla,taza,manowar,nightspd,amigainfo

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Carl ][ No problem Piru, I will answer these..

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Carl ][ I have yet to hear anyone suggest something for the Amiga OS which I did not consider. After all, the OS I did before the Amiga (at HP) did have resource tracking, and memory mapping, virtual memory, good mem alloc, etc. The problem was...

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Carl ][ the Amiga was a game machine, and I knew that no game designers cared about such things. If the OS became a block to them, they'd trash it and go directly to the hardware (which many did anyway, but many also kept the OS alive, and each time they did, I was secretly very happy.)

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Carl ][ The OS architecture was designed to be very layered, and you as a programmer could decide which layer worked best for you. But when tripos was put on it, that idea broke down.

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Carl ][ Here's a story, not well known:

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Carl ][ When I quit Amiga (which I now regret doing) I was pissed.

Carl ][ I was angry with Metacompco for creating such crap on top of the Exec, and the other modules which we worked so hard to perfect...

Carl ][ Shortly after leaving, Irving Gould called me a home, and literally begged me to return to fix the problems. However,

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Carl ][ at that point I falsely believed that they could not be fixed because they would have created a legacy split... he continued to go on and suggested that he could deposit "any reasonable sum of money in a german or swiss bank account" if I would return. I was nuts not to accept, not for the cash but for the fix.

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Carl ][ Afterall, he really seemed to understand why the DOS was so bad. I respected that. And I always thought he was a good man, despite what history says about him.

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to kolla

kolla ][ Carl: Dont know if these Qs are answered before but.. 1) Will we see a share library version of rebol for amiga, or something like rexxmast, a runtime "daemon" in behind? 2) And... linux versions.. I run linux/m68k and linux/PPC on my amigas quite alot.. are there rpm's (and/or deb's) on its way? :) 3) What developer environment fo you use for making rebol... gcc? =)

kolla ][ GA

_bladez_ ][ queue is taza,manowar,nightspd,amigainfo,dave

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Carl ][ 1) A shared library is on our list, we want to do them, and will do them. But other priorities are higher right now, like improving reliability, performance, etc.

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Carl ][ 2) Make suggestions about what platforms you want to see supported to support@rebol.com. We'll add them to our list.

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Carl ][ 3) We use many environments for REBOL, but mostly gcc. On the Amiga it was SAS. On mac it was Metroworks.

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Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to taza

taza ][ Simple question, how is REBOL going to make money ? Or are you relying on external funding sources for the complete duration of the development of REBOL ? ie: 1.0 is now out, but will 2.0 (You mention possible compiler support, etc...) have a cost associated with it, etc ?

taza ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from taza

_bladez_ ][ queue is manowar,nightspd,amigainfo,dave.

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Carl ][ REBOL/Core will ALWAYS be free. That is our promise. The way we plan to make money is by creating a large river in which we place a small straw to draw out something for our company. That straw is corporations... which want "professional versions" not downloads from the net.

Carl ][ Besides (jokingly), in REBOL you can say:

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Carl ][ cash: make money! 1000000

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Manowar2

Manowar2 ][ 1) How will Rebol/Media GUI look like ?...2) will it use the GUI that are present in host OS ?..3) What are the plans for Rebol/Media ? Can u give an example of Rebol/Media application ?GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from Manowar2

Carl (][ or, of course, just cash: $1000000)

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_bladez_ ][ queue is nightspd,amigainfo,dave,tb.

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Carl ][ 1) I have always believed that you cannot preserve the true meaning of an interface if you translate it to the host OS API. Java has proven that, and it dealt them a serious blow. You've got to make apps on different platforms look and feel identical in every way, even in every bug.

Carl ][ We don't have any examples of /Media available as of yet... but we did write a few sometime back, just for design reasons.

Carl ][ One other thing that I should note:

«Nick» ][ Blast__ is now known as Blast.

Carl ][ The real push for doing REBOL actually came from a strange incident.

Carl ][ I installed Linux.

«Nick» ][ onebit is now known as mae98.

Carl ][ I got really annoyed that Linux had so many internal configuration languages and scripts, each of which was different. I began to think about how they could be unified, yet remain equally expressive.

Carl ][ That's when I decided to make it happen.

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to NightSpd

NightSpd ][ Thanks for the compliment Carl. My advisors didn't understand my statements about representation (object ][= view ][= term ][= concept) when I presented it for my thesis topic 8 years ago. A shame that I had to wait all these years to have something to point to and say "Do you 'get it' now, Doc Melbourne?" :) That done Q: Did I miss the function to list the available rebol functions?

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_bladez_ ][ ga?

NightSpd ][ ga

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from NightSpd

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_bladez_ ][ queue is amigainfo,dave,tb.

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Carl ][ Glance at the earlier reboldoc.r if you downloaded it before I clipped the tail of it which had a function for listing the functions of REBOL.

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Carl (][ undocumented, because I need to ponder it a bit more).

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Carl ][ Also, send me your thesis.... sounds like good reading!

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Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to AmigaInfo

Carl (][ So, how's RJ been doing at the show?)

_bladez_ ][ queue is dave,tb,hesido.

AmigaInfo ][ Some quickies. Are you involved in the AmigaOS v3.5/4/5 development? Are you still pleased with their plans (plus now regarding v3.5 for Classic)? and How did the last "MS CD-ROM trapshooting" go? Also, would you prefer that AInc develope v3.5 and v4/5NG to work very integrated? GA

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Carl ][ 1) Unfortunately, my shedule has not allowed me to do anything other than focus on REBOL 1.0. I've not been on the net much, and have not been watching V3.5, etc. closely. However, I have a lot of respect for Dr. Havemose... his insights, thoughts, directions. And I trust he will do the best that can be done.

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Carl ][ 2) We're still collecting enought CD-ROM's for the trapshoot, but we're just about there with the MSDN pile, which has no other use other than to pitch into the sky and blast. We'll post some photos on the net. Should be soon, as the weather now allows it to happen without setting everyting on fire.

Carl ][ 3) Don't know.

Carl ][ GA

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to Dave

Dave ][ If you had to pick the most flawed piece of software you ever seen what would it be?

Dave ][ and the best too :) over

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from Dave

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Carl ][ Most flawed: MS Win.

Carl ][ Best: Scala

Carl ][ GA

TB ][ Amen

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_bladez_ ][ :)

«Nick» ][ PaulNolan is now known as PaulN.

_bladez_ ][ tb you're up

«Nick» ][ Piru is now known as BlizKick.

TB ][ 1) Being an OS guru from wayback, what do you think will be the next big

TB ][ thing in Operating Systems?

TB ][ 2) Will rebol support the OS 3.5 PPC solution?

TB ][ 3) Would you be willing to let rebol to be distributed with OS's on thier

TB ][ CDs?

TB ][ 4) Any easter eggs in rebol? If not, any plans :)

«Nick» ][ Duken is now known as OS_Coder.

_bladez_ ][ queue is hesido.

TB ][ GA

TB ][ Sorry :)

_bladez_ ][ =)

Carl ][ BTW, I imagine everyone at the show is calling REBOL re-ball, but correct them for me, and call it rebel (REH-bul), as we'd like it to be known as the start of a revolution.

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Carl ][ Or, should I say, REBOLution.

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Carl ][ 1) What's next in OS? That is a very long story... but, if you look at REBOL, and squint a bit, you will see it there, just a faint image, but it's there.

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Carl ][ 2) We'll support everything that Amiga Inc. releases.

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Carl ][ 3) Yes. We'll be announcing a big one over the month ahead.

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Carl ][ 4) I'm not telling. ;)

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TB ][ oh shucks :)

Carl ][ Is there a way to poll the group?

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Carl ][ I'd like to ask a question about the download page of our web site.

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TB ][ Possibly.

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TB ][ Perhaps a yes vote goes to one user, and nos to another?

_bladez_ ][ go carl

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Carl ][ Currently, it does not ask for *any* info about the person downloading..., needless to say, I'm getting beat up for it by my marketing guys, who have a good point:

Carl ][ this info is invaluable for us.

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Carl ][ But, it seemed to me that we would inhibit the free exchange of the program in doing so. What do you think?

Carl ][ Any advice?

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Carl (][ Someday I'm going to rewrite IRC in REBOL. I promise that.)

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TB ][ Carl: how bout we go unmoderated and people type thier feelings in the channel. Sound ok?

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_bladez_ ][ but there is one person left on the queue

_bladez_ ][ queue is hesido.

TB ][ Or do you want a yes/no type thing?

«Quit» ][ Wendell (wendell@wendell.ndip.eskimo.net) has signed off (Write error to Wendell[wendell.ndip.eskimo.net], closing link).

_bladez_ ][ carl do you want to field his/her question?

_bladez_ ][ first

Carl ][ Go unmoderated for a bit.

Carl ][ GA

_bladez_ ][ that is the last person on the queue :)

TB ][ Ok. your the boss

Carl ][ Did I miss a question?

_bladez_ ][ yeah :)

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ gives voice to hesido

hesido ][ when rebol has its gui, will it do the wonders of java for the amiga? amiga lacks such a multiplatform lanugage.. you sad java failed on the gui side not being standart amongst the platforms.. so it will be even better then what java has to suggest? GA

hesido ][ thanks

«Voice» ][ _bladez_ removes voice from hesido

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TB ][ Answer then we'll go unmoderated :)

TBARS ][ marketing - user optional - but better feedback will be had by mailing list activity

«Error» #][ mae98 Cannot send to channel

_bladez_ ][ yep :)

Carl ][ Ok, I'll answer first, then unmoderate.

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Carl ][ Yes... I think it will be better... because I believe it will truly allow distributed forms of GUI and exchange of messages. The note I made about IRC is one such example.

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Carl ][ Also, I really do not like binary distributed objects. When they break, they're impossible for you to fix.

«Nick» ][ OS_Coder is now known as PPCisTOY.

Carl ][ If you've got important info buried within a binary object, and it breaks, you've got serious problems. We don't need that kind of computing, we need something much better. Something we can depend on.

Carl ][ That's it! Thanks all for the questions. Let's go unmod. Whew!

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Carl ][ GA

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TB ][ Ok, first. Thanks Carl for turning up and speaking to us :)

_bladez_ >> ][ Conference ends here :) <<

TB ][ Just to recap the poll

TB ][ Currently, it does not ask for *any* info about the person downloading..., needless to say, I'm getting beat up for it by my marketing guys, who have a good point:

TB ][ this info is invaluable for us. But, it seemed to me that we would inhibit the free exchange of the program in doing so. What do you think?

TB ][ Ok, unmoderated now.

TBARS ][ marketing - user optional on download (besides REBOL is OS independant)- but better feedback will be had by mailing list /news group activity

«Error» #][ mae98 Cannot send to channel

«Mode» ][ TB changes channel modes to not moderated

kolla ][ carl: you got quite some fans among the old amiga hurd here at our computer club (at the university in Trodheim, Norway) They send their greetings :)

Blast ][ Carl: just make a page saying "Please fill in this form, it is not essential, but we want you to" but make it downloadable anyway, then those who want to can fill it out simply.

BlizKick ][ Carl, I think you should not be forced to give the information to get to download REBOL. that would reduce the false/crap info at least.

TA ][ Carl: Collect the info, people shouldn't mind giving information for such a great product especially since it is free.

gEnEx ][ getting at least email info and maybe just name/age before downloading is good for gathering statistics, and you could use the email addy to send out info on updates etc.

Dave ][ real programmers poke binary files till they work ;) most real programs dont even have sourcecode because of all the patching ;)

Merko ][ carl: Why not make it optional? Lots of people likes to fill in such forms.. and you can never force anyone anyway, people can always fill in Joe Smith etc.. or get it from someone else. It would always be more of a poll than a "registration" anyway. Just make sure every downloader will see the form when looking for the files!

NightSpd ][ I'd download Rebol anyhow, if the form was short, if I was not asked personal details, if I knew for what purpose the information woulld be used and also that such information would not be sold. I value what privacy I have left.

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SlamDunk ][ Carl: How much of Rebol is taken from your Forth experiences ?

TBARS ][ marketing - user optional on download (besides REBOL is OS independant)- but better feedback will be had by mailing list /news group activity

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RexxMast ][ Carl what type of info should it ask for when downloading according to whomever? However I think it is very nice with lots of possibilities! :) Also, are you putting any input into OS3.5?

Alek ][ You rule, Carl :o)

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TB ][ Wow....flood

BlizKick (][ my GOD!)

Joker ][ aww flood

kolla ][ :)

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RexxMast :)

SlamDunk ][ name and e-mail address would be fine !

xantigrav ][ Is tekmage avail?

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_bladez_ ][ thanks carl for an excellent conference :)

etois ][ carl any info you wish.

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Defacto ][ Carl: Have any major 'blue chip' companies expressed an interest in Rebol?

_bladez_ ][ no problems either with me on asking for info ...

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RaM ][ optional since ppl will fill out bogus info anyway if its mandatory...optional would give truer information

ColinT ][ Carl: Asking for personal information when DLing Software has become part of life. We all expect it.

Dave ][ re ram

RaM ][ Hy Davey dave

RexxMast ][ Carl...I'm getting an ERROR message in reference to the eval_reduce function

Dave ][ has pool crashed on you yet? ;)

alfie ][ hummm stupip question maybe already made: where to put mailserver name? :-)

RexxMast ][ I don't accept it....I think it is rediculious...way too much information about us all on the net any! :)

RaM ][ surprisingly it hasnt ;) time bomb...tick tick tick :)

kolla ][ alfie: read the example scripts... however.. it didnt work for me

Dave ][ ram: my code rocks ;)

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Dave ][ carl: do you still use an amiga?

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Zarovich ][ Grrr!

NightSpd ][ Somehow I doubt that the Regime will ever line up all the REBOLs to be shot, but I'd rather believe that such information would be destroyed by Carl in any event. :)

Zarovich [][ Carl VERSION Response]: mIRC32 v4.72 K.Mardam-Bey

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gEnEx ][ thanx Carl for all you've done for Amiga in the past, and continue to do!

kolla ][ ugh.. what is this "Visual Basic" error I get on rebol's supprt page?

RexxMast ][ I think I read sadly....that Carl had gone to the eeek PC!

TA ][ Carl: Would just like to says thanks for all you have done ...

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NightSpd ][ Carl: Thanks for everything... from OS to language.

* ][ RexxMast does wonder if Carl is putting any input into OS3.5 and/or later

RexxMast ][ Yes Carl thanks..there is NOTHING like the AmigaOS!

kolla ][ interresting.. noh? :) http://www.netsales.net/pk.wcgi/support/index.html

_bladez_ ][ rexxmast: he's not ... he's been too busy on rebol

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Manowar2 ][ bye...this was great..thanx all

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xantigrav ][ anyone still at MAE?

«Nick» ][ PPCisTOY is now known as Dukeni.

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* ][ Alek thinks AMiga Inc. need a visionary like Carl Sassenrath.

Carl ][ Question about my Forth experience: various ideas of Forth were important, but having been deeply involved in it, I found various problems which really bothered me. However, forth has done things right as well. So perhaps 10% of REBOL was influenced by ti.

kolla ][ the rebol site got some troubles with it's VB engine it seems... heh..

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TB ][ jk: Man have you missed stuff bigtime!

RexxMast ][ are the examples on the REBOL site back online?

Jkay ][ No, I was at the Sesame Street Live Stage Review with my son. I haven't missed a thing.

_bladez_ ][ rexx: yes

Alek ][ Jkay :)

RexxMast ][ _bladez_ ahhh cool

RexxMast ][ :)

RaM ][ Jkay: hah dont lie ;)) you WANTED to go :)

«Quit» ][ KOALAPPC (peskin@200.10.117.167) has signed off (HASTA LA VISTA BABY.....).

Logain ][ JKay: you seem to have the right priorities :-)

ZZap ][ I wonder if There's BOING ball in corner of AmigaOS3.5...ehh :-)

Dave ][ carl: who wrote layers.library

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Jkay ][ RaM: That Prarie Dawn chick is x-tra hoochie .. or something.

RexxMast ][ the mouse busy pointer should be a spinning boing ball!

RexxMast ][ :)

«Quit» ][ Pisi (Pisi@ppp9.versilia.toscana.it) has signed off (Warping to another Server.....).

Carl ][ Kolla, the REBOL site does *NOT* use VB (visual basic) at all! Not a line of it! I'm not sure what error you are seeing.

Belxjande ][ RexxMast: Why not just have a DataTypes Cursor and make it an Animated sprite? 8-)

RaM ][ Big Birds got nice legs

alfie ][ Carl: I see the same error

RexxMast ][ :)

kolla ][ carl: ok, must be your provider or something..

Jkay ][ Oh, Carl S is still here? Congrats on your REBOL Amiga release: I keep hearing great things about it from the first wave of downloaders/

TBARS ][ Carl they are refering to the site you link to

Carl ][ Kolla.... what did you click on?

kolla ][ support.. news...

RexxMast ][ Carl...is there an error in the eval_reduce function of the Amiga version..mine seems to have one?

ZZap ][ rexxmast: How about restoring old...GURU MEDITATION? :-)

kolla ][ doensload and sales.. uhm.. the lot

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Carl ][ Dave, Dale Luck wrote layers.library along with RJ's input on how to make it work best with intuition.

«Quit» ][ alfie (alfier@195.210.64.217) has signed off (Shutdown -r now).

Piru ][ heh

TBARS ][ The VB errors are not on the www.rebol.com site but a site it links to and duplicates

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wormy ][ ;

Piru ][ that was obvious. there is this msg by Dale in 1.1ntsc 1.1pal and 1.2 and 1.3 :)

RexxMast ][ ZZap...yeah the GURU MEDITATION has to come back..big mistake when these were changed to Software Failure...uuggg! :)

TA ][ Carl: Do you, Dale, Dave H, and others still stay in touch?

Carl ][ Kolla, I'll be rewriting the entire site in REBOL this weekend. It's been too much of a pain to do it directly (we had someone working on it for days... and it can be done in just a page or two of REBOL).

Piru ][ in RT_IDSTRING of layers.library resident :-)

kolla ][ hm...

Dave ][ piru: if it qwas so obvious you should have answered me dammit

RexxMast ][ what kind of error on the site...I don't see any

kolla ][ carl: it is not from the main site.. and now I actually lost track on where I found it..

Olorin ][ What was the OS3.5 news? Amiga web directories link to the story doesn;t work ;(

TB ][ Just so people know, I will have this IRC log uploaded to Amiga.org sometime over the next few days.

Piru ][ Dave, well now we have a confirmation;)

Carl ][ RexxMast: the eval_reduce function error is misleading, and needs to give you more info. Sorry, we need to fix that.

Jkay ][ OS 3.5 to be released in 1Q '99 ..

Jkay ][ for classic amigas

TBARS ][ The VB errors are on the site the alliance links to

Jkay ][ a nice complete update.

--> ][ Pisi (Pisi@ppp9.versilia.toscana.it) has joined this channel.

Dave ][ with circular windows

Dave ][ muahahaha

Jkay ][ including commercial software from 20 Amiga companies.

Dave ][ good one

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RexxMast ][ Carl...oh ok thanks! REBOL looks great. I cannot wait to delve deeper into it! :)

«Quit» ][ ktf^f451 (~Felix@a-mi21-7.tin.it) has signed off (Ping timeout for ktf^f451[a-mi21-7.tin.it]).

tarbos ][ hey, caipirinha does circular windows :)

--> ][ jlowery (jlowery@207.224.205.19) has joined this channel.

Piru ][ Dave, have a look at Workbench Nostalgia page: http://www.cyberlink-inc.com/gdonner/wb_index.html

«Quit» ][ Olorin (Methlogin@indobok-121.mdm.mkt.execpc.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

Logain ][ like?

Harv ][ what's bill hawes doing lately?

AmigaInfo ][ Carl: Is there an archive of the online doc available?

«Quit» ][ xantigrav (xantigrav@usr39-dialup12.mix1.Bloomington.cw.net) has signed off (Write error to xantigrav[usr39-dialup12.mix1.Bloomington.cw.net], closing link).

zegi ][ Carl: is there a 'Amiga' meeting sometimes? with all people inveted Amiga 1000. Like Robert Mical, Dave Needle, Ronald Nickolson, Sam Dicker, Bob Pariseau, Joe Pillow, Bill Kolb, Bob Burns ...

RaM ][ im looking forward to a new DIR command

«Quit» ][ Lizard (lizard@poort93-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl) has signed off (This system is going for a reboot NOW !!!).

--> ][ Olorin (Methlogin@indobok-121.mdm.mkt.execpc.com) has joined this channel.

Jkay ][ so .. what happened in the last 6 hours that I "missed" :)

Piru "][ 2. Markus Bieler notes that his first A1000 had a Kickstart disk labeled (hand-written) v0.9beta Release 29.2"

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Piru ][ hand written? oh :)

RexxMast ][ I don't think sites need any info about me or anyone else there is way, way too much info about us there now..period!

RexxMast ][ :)

TA ][ Olorin: Take a look at http://web.wt.net/~gpeake/daily.html for the OS 3.5 news.

ZZap ][ RaM: U can find those DIR commands from Aminet

Carl ][ TBARS: Ah! Ok, that's our distributor's problem then. We'll take care of it. Thanks for the input.

Bernie ][ Piru: I want a copy of it ;-)

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Olorin ][ Thanks TA

Bernie ][ Piru: read the tracks to a file before it's too late. old disks tend to corrupt

kolla ][ carl: I'm lost.. dont find it again, it was the pages reffering to http://www.netsales.net/pk.wcgi/ addresses.

Carl ][ Amigainfo: Not yet. But we will be making archives of all the docs and examples soon.

Harv ][ the webcam has gone very very dark.

Piru ][ Bernie, it's not mine... see http://www.cyberlink-inc.com/gdonner/wb_index.html

cyber ][ I'm back what's ben happening ?

kolla ][ carl: all I click on now works :)

TA ][ If anyone snagged a complete log and will mail it to me at gpeake@wt.net I would appreciate.

Carl ][ Zegi: not really, would be fun though!

kolla ][ carl: just curious.. have you looked at the python language?

«Quit» ][ Belxjande (~sp00ky@p52-max11.chc.ihug.co.nz) has signed off (Leaving).

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Carl ][ kolla: yes. looked very carefully at python.

kolla ][ carl: and what your imoression of it?

Carl ][ kolla: looks like just another traditional language to me.

kolla ][ impression

kolla ][ ok :)

Dave ][ the workbench stuff is cool

RexxMast ][ The Amiga is cool...period! :)

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Piru ][ Carl, looked into Workbench Nostalgia page? (http://www.cyberlink-inc.com/gdonner/wb_index.html). You could really email them with some nice details no?-)

ZZap ][ All: I wonder if there's AHI or ARTAS or... included in OS3.5?

kolla ][ carl: I find it very nice, especially since it is easy to read and also works very well on amiga :)

RexxMast ][ All mine Rock!

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TA ][ ZZap: RTA will be included.

--> ][ emh (emh@du5.tka.com) has joined this channel.

ZZap ][ ta: a completely new one??

--> ][ NorthWay (bnost@ti15a02-0056.dialup.online.no) has joined this channel.

* ][ RexxMast again would like to thank Carl for the greatest OS ever to exist IMHO! :)

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TA ][ ZZap: Backwards compatible to AHI.

ZZap ][ ta: COOL :-)

RexxMast ][ TA..will is support my Sunrize AD516 Studio 16..the baddest of the bad :)

Dave ][ re northway

«Quit» ][ Optic (dfraser@pc-679.on.rogers.wave.ca) has signed off (Leaving).

RexxMast ][ sadly there is no AHI driver for the AD516 as there are NO dev docs..

«Quit» [][ GemAway] (kimts@ti18a23-0081.dialup.online.no) has signed off (Hmmm..... what does this button do??????).

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* ][ kolla wonders what they are goggling at on that big screen at MAE

RexxMast ][ for the 3.01 version of the software that is

«Quit» ][ Bernie (bernie@dadovago1221.dada.it) has signed off (Demo timeout).

Carl ][ Piru: no, have not seen the page. What is it?

_bladez_ ][ hi ill

«Quit» ][ wal (a.g@hd60-163.hil.compuserve.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

Illuvatar ][ re bladez

«Quit» ][ RexxMast (Cyb@47ppp9.gulftel.com) has signed off (Demo timeout).

Piru ][ Carl, it has information about all workbench/kickstart versions. Screenshots, information about hidden messages and stuff like that

«Quit» ][ emh (emh@du5.tka.com) has signed off (Leaving).

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«Quit» ][ Serendip (serendip@ppp-18.tc-1.orl.smartworld.net) has signed off (Client exiting).

RexxMast ][ crap demo timeout..what did I miss! :)

Piru ][ Carl, I bet you could give them some additional information. =) They would really appreciate it.

kolla ][ alfie: what did I click on? :)

Carl ][ Piru: ok, I'll check it out.

Harv ][ rexxmast.. nothing. just the boing ball cheerleader team.

RexxMast ][ dammit!!!! :)

RexxMast ][ hehe

«Quit» ][ RaceFan (jodyk@jvlpm4133.ticon.net) has signed off (Demo timeout).

kolla ][ ah.. carl... from the alliance page..

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«Quit» ][ Stevek (sekruege@user-38ld95r.dialup.mindspring.com) has signed off (Leaving).

RexxMast ][ Carl..is it true that you finally broke down and went to a...uggggg PC?

Olorin ][ Anyone know if the developer system is still onschedule for a novembr release?

kolla ][ the alliance page is the one with VB in it :)

«Quit» ][ cyber (alanwall@d178.nas17.sonic.net) has signed off (Ping timeout for cyber[d178.nas17.sonic.net]).

«Quit» ][ Defacto (Defacto@knightboat.demon.co.uk) has signed off (Demo timeout).

DrFraggle ][ Olo: Someone said it will be delayed

Jkay ][ watching cookie monster frolic on stage for 90 minutes works up an appetite; bbl.

TBARS ][ Kolla: look carefully at the address. :)

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kolla ][ tbars: I know...

Carl ][ Kolla. Thanks. We'll ask them (our distributor) to fix that problem. They've still got work to do on that part. Thx.

«Nick» ][ Jkay is now known as Jkay_yum.

kolla ][ tbars: it's a different site :)

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kolla ][ tbars: they use the same layout.. I dont look at locations every time I click a new link :)

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Carl ][ Rexxmast: and I hate every minute of it. Finally decided this week that I need to switchover to some form of Linux for what's sitting on my desk (next to my Amiga of course).

* ][ RexxMast thiks that I will go PPC of sometype..maybe the G3 Boards if they ever surface to tide me over till AmigaNG comes out...especially now that OS3.5 will support PPC

TBARS ][ kolla: I know. :)

ZZap ][ November box is like Cerberus? +OS5dev

Harv ][ Carl, what's in your Amiga?

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Carl ][ I really get annoyed with Windows.... It's going to give me a stroke someday, ask anyone I work with.

Dave ][ re exec

Blast ][ Carl: all of us get that .. :)

Exec ][ Dave is here, man!

Jooon ][ Carl: Who do you work with? :)

kolla ][ carl: (I said this earler during the flood, so... ) you got quite some fans among the old amiga hurd here at our computer club (at the university in Trodheim, Norway) They send their greetings :)

RexxMast ][ Carl! I bet you do. I know nothing about the AmigaOS compared to you and I cannot stand them..or a MAC for that matter they bore me to death! :)

Piru ][ RexxMast, the PPC support isn't really different to what we have now.

_bladez_ ][ olorin: afaik no i think it will be release first quarter 99 but there will be a demo at koln98

SilvrDrgn ][ Carl: Join the club. I got so frustrated with WinDOHS the other day that I broke my keyboard at work.

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tarbos ][ yeah, os3.5 will 100% 68k code

«Quit» ][ Zonkk (amiga@196.25.239.86) has signed off (Ping timeout for Zonkk[196.25.239.86]).

RexxMast ][ Piru..OS3.1 has no PPC support at all..what are you talking about?

Merko ][ Piru: Not technically perhaps, but it is also very important to make it official..

«Quit» ][ defiant (westman@p19.nas1.is4.u-net.net) has signed off (Client exiting).

Piru ][ RexxMast, blah. amigaos 3.5 is 100% 680x0

Dave ][ which sucks

Piru ][ RexxMast, it just has warpos (probably) included.

«Quit» ][ gefloc (gefloc@gefloc.cubenet.de) has signed off (Client exiting).

Piru ][ Merko, official or not I will use whatever fits for me

Dave ][ is there some kind of /ignore on privmsgs?

RexxMast ][ Windows..just flat out sucks! Period. It is horrible!

Merko ][ Piru: Sure. :)

Carl ][ Harv: not much of a graphics power user, so most are stock, with addons for networking, eg. ether net. However, I've been wanting a good graphics board, any suggestions?

Mostro ][ piru: I hope, if warpos will be included, we'll have soon a gcc warpos, for example... but we'll lose sas/c

Merko ][ Piru: (I hope the official solution will not be quite what is expected though.)

Harv ][ carl - everyone I know who has Picasso (IV?) seems happy with it. but I don't own one myself (yet).

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* ][ RexxMast loves my A3000T's especailly..they rock..but I love my other 4 Amigas too! :)

kolla ][ PicassoIV is the best bang for buck card

Blast ][ Carl:Have a PPC board ?

Dave ][ carl: is there some kind of /ignore on privmsgs?

Piru ][ Carl, if you don't have intentions to get powerpc then get Picasso IV.

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Carl ][ SlibrDrgn: I've done that too. Almost tossed a PC through the window one time. Decided it wasn't worth the effort.

alanwall ][ TA:i have most of the log do u want?

Blast ][ Carl: in that case, get the *VisionPPC

Merko ][ kolla: Unless you have a PPC board, in case it's the CSPPC.

Piru ][ Carl, If you have powerpc card get CyberVisionPPC

Dave ][ fuck there is blood all over the keyboard

SilvrDrgn ][ Carl: They make great boat anchors!!!! :-)

Dave *][ sigh*

ZZap ][ I really do not hope that OS 3.5 is like OS3.1+warpOS+newicons....At least we should have native PPC- code in it (80%???)

kolla ][ merko: if I have a csppc I have no need for yet another csppc ;)

etois ][ hmm dave

wormy ][ i'm looking for an in-expinsive Acelerator 030/040 and graphics card fpr my Amiga2000, anybody got one they might be selling

RexxMast ][ Dave has cut his throat with all this talk about windows! eeek

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Dave ][ hehe

Piru ][ ZZap, you will not have ppc code inside amigaos 3.5.

wormy ][ WINDOZE AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Merko ][ kolla: Grrr.. P5 should be shot for naming their products so bad. ;D

Dave ][ i use x windows. it rocks

alanwall ][ TA:loging since 11:30 Edt except for 2 short crashes got all of Carls q& a

Carl ][ Then I need to find a Picasso..... What are they, about $400 or so?

RexxMast ][ hey...PC's do indeed make good boat anchors..and doorstops too!

TA ][ ZZap: Adding integral support for PPC would take about 18 months.

ZZap ][ Piru: :-(

kolla ][ dave: ugh... no it doesnt, it just looks as if.. it really sucks

Harv ][ carl about $350 I think yes.

wormy ][ i use ont hold up one end of a coffee table

«Quit» ][ Spyro (root@line140.vorarlberg.dialup.tele.net) has signed off (Demo-Zeitüberschreitung).

RexxMast ][ Carl..yeah maybe $369.00 something like that

Dave ][ kolla: bull. x windows kicks major ass

kolla ][ dave: the only reason you think it rocks is because you have quite some moderns hardware to run it on..

Dave ][ it's slow as a dog but it still rockas ;)

SilvrDrgn ][ Carl: Shop around.... about $360

Dave ][ kolla: hehe

wormy ][ did you know that PC also make great preactive targets at the Gun Range

SilvrDrgn ][ wormy: That works!

«Quit» ][ Jooon (jooon@193.12.73.163) has signed off (Switching server).

kolla ][ dave: X was an experiment that escaped from the developer labs.. should never have happened :)

* ][ wormy Idpdyeod Adoidsh!][ d uhk o ?

alanwall ][ Carl:I could come up and show u what a 3000 with cybervision and ppc looks like

Harv ][ see www.amigazone.com for picture of an IBM PC turned into a cat litter box :)

Dave ][ carl: could yoy please tell me how i can contact dale luck

SilvrDrgn ][ wormy: That makes me wanna borrow my brother's 9mm and 44 Mag to play with for a while.

Dave ][ u

Piru ][ hey, my friends did a entry to Wild Compo.. they took a pc and dropped it off the cliff :-))

«Quit» ][ etois (kd@129.252.214.162) has signed off (Leaving).

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kolla ][ weee.. whos's the female?? :))

«Quit» ][ Seb (tsg@ip213-246.cc.interlog.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

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<-- ][ ZZap (Pete@jokunen.lnet.lut.fi) has left this channel.

Nadir ][ allanwall: could you send me the log?

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wormy ][ silver: lol lol

AmigaMMC ][ hello all

«Whois» ][ User: Dave (dav@rabble.uow.edu.au): Dave

«Whois» ][ Channels: #MAE98 @#amiga

«Whois» ][ Server: fastlane.au.amiganet.org (Anet Australian Server)

«Whois» ][ End of /WHOIS list.

kolla ][ and who's the Bart Simpson impression? :)

alanwall ][ Carl:u just missed Dale Luck at AmiWest-he showed up about 1/2 hour after u left

* ][ RexxMast would like to drop Bill Gates off a cliff! :)

wormy ][ i through one in front of an 18 wheeler

Piru ][ RexxMast, that would be cool yes, but little hard to arrange;)

* ][ kolla got scared by that cam pic and hides under his desk...

wormy ][ crush

RexxMast ][ Microsoft's stranglehold has ruined the computer business and taken all the fun out of it for the masses!

Harv ][ satan is on the cam

Harv ][ see the horns?

Cade ][ ha

RexxMast ][ Piru...hmmmm we should talk! :)

SilvrDrgn ][ heh

wormy ][ forget Sadam why hasen't anyone killed Bill

«Quit» ][ Nadir (f77nb76e@193.10.145.8) has signed off (Demo timeout).

kolla ][ it's a hand.. it's coming to get us..

RaM ][ RexxMast: heh yeah PC users look so miserable as they play w/thier PII VooDoo 2 systems ;)

AmigaMMC ][ Hi Harv, Hi Carl (congratulatios for REBOL)

alanwall ][ RexxMast:The EPA would put u in jail for envoroment pollution

Harv ][ oh no! it's the hand that ate columbus!

Harv ][ hi mmc

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RexxMast ][ RaM..every PC user I know stay in misery! :)

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kolla ][ wormy: time to hack those bombers on their way to bomb the serbs.. let them drop in by redmond... :)

TBARS ][ No need to kill bill, hell he's unknownly set things up for us

RaM ][ You dont know many then

ashiq ][ yo rmerlin

RMerlin ][ re

--> ][ eaglelil (jbaumg2@umcp-158.dialup.umbc.edu) has joined this channel.

RaM ][ admittedly they are just anti productive gaming punks...but still, that IS the masses

Carl ][ Harv, will need to check that out.

wormy ][ LOL LOL

--> ][ Lizard (lizard@poort160-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl) has joined this channel.

AmigaMMC ][ Harv: any news apart from OS3.5 "classic" ?

RexxMast ][ Games..shit who the hell needs games..I have a Playstation for that if I feel the need!

Harv ][ mmc - not really.

Piru ][ is it really harv?-)

Carl ][ Dave, dale's off at a telecom company these days. Try daleluck@ieee.org

wormy ][ i have to (unfortunatley) use a PC on IRC

Harv ][ realy what?

Harv +][ l

* ][ kolla read the announcement and laughs... =)

alanwall ][ Wormy:what do u use-virc?

Cade ][ thats not nice of those 2 guys

Piru <- ][ tried /whois

ColinT ][ Wormy: I'm using a PC now, but I am on AmIRC:)

wormy ][ my A2000, has the stock CPU

ashiq ][ wormy: you'nt sorry for using the PC ;-)

Jooon ][ ColinT: ? :)

Harv ][ uh oh.. satan and satan jr. giving us the finger on the cam.

Cade ][ COlin hey

kolla ][ cade: they both ahave a physical defect.. :)

ColinT ][ WinUAE is VERY fast now.

AmigaMMC ][ Harv: I'm glad we still have several Amiga shows otherwise AI would release small infos only once a year at Xmas.

ColinT ][ Hi Cade!

Piru ][ hehe

kolla ][ colin: indeed

Cade ][ didnt see you there colin

Cade ][ :-)

kolla ][ colin: if you got a fast PC that is..

ashiq ][ ColinT: right

Piru ][ rude ppl ;)

«Quit» ][ Olorin (Methlogin@indobok-121.mdm.mkt.execpc.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

ColinT ][ Kolla: I have one of those too:)

Merko ][ ColinT: Sure, compared to an A500 with no hard drive.. or even with a hard drive. ;D

ashiq ][ nude ppl .. where ;-)

kolla ][ merko: o3o speed now ;)

Piru ][ whose hands?-)

Harv ][ waiting for someone to moon the cam

Cade ][ ha

RexxMast ][ WinUAE is still NOT an Amiga! :)

RaM ][ 9sigh) ppl that judge after pulling their heads out of a cardboard box....

xantigrav ][ Is MAE still going on?

* ][ RMerlin howls at the moon for himself :)

<-- ][ RaM (~r@DP-A01-pool-27.tmns.net.au) has left this channel.

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wormy ][ i need an 030 or 040 acelerator anybody selling one, cheap

Merko ][ kolla: Yeye.. I know.. that's not what I call fast. :)

ColinT ][ Rexx: You purist!

kolla ][ rexx: when was the last time you run WB in 1280x1024x32bit and it was fast?

Jooon ][ Harv: Somebody already has. Sometimes the picture turns black.

ashiq ][ Rexx: says who

Harv ][ more evil hands.

Carl ][ AmigaMMC: thanks.

RexxMast ][ ColinT..perhaps

RexxMast ][ ashiq..says me!

blastman ][ Who's speaking?

ashiq ][ Rexx: and you are ?

kolla ][ merko: sure, it's nowhere close my o6o, but it's quite usable. Alot more usable than most a12oo machines around

Merko ][ kolla: It's fast, but 8mb of vram is a bit little for such screens if you want to use many, like I do. :)

RexxMast ][ can it run a DCTV...no, etc etc

Blast ][ Carl: any thoughts on a ppc ver of rebol for amiga ?

--> ][ Wrpd3k (SYSLEE@srv-18-10.roc.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined this channel.

AmigaMMC ][ Carl: you're welcome, you deserve it all :-)

RexxMast ][ ashiq..I'm your worst nightmare...so blow off

wormy ][ what is dctv

kolla ][ merko: what 8MB of vram?

kolla ][ merko: why not 16MB?

Piru ][ Blast, ppc version is just recompile I guess

RMerlin ][ Ashiq doesn't fear anything

ColinT ][ Mine seems to have the look and feel of my 040/40. I am very happy with WinUAE. It's the Win part that I hate.

Merko ][ kolla: Those on the cvppc of course, whereever?-)

ashiq ][ my worst nightmare ... woohoooooo

Blast ][ Piru: yes, YOU guess, he knows though

blastman ][ What is DCTV????!!!

Piru ][ Carl, ppc version would be just recompile right? (with ppc-amigaos-gcc or sas/c ppc)

kolla ][ merko: with winuae you can ofcourse run on a machine with more ram than that..

ashiq ][ that would be Bill Clinton in his Underware ;-)

eaglelil ][ Any1 know the MIME settings for GSM and Voyager?

ColinT ][ Rexx: I sold my DCTV. It was an antique.

Merko ][ kolla: Sure, but how many PC cards have more than 8mb vram?

RMerlin ][ DCTV was a nice piece of hardware

Harv ][ DCTV - a $500 (now $30) NTSC digitizer and paintbox for Amiga. wildly popular in the late 80s.

Dave ][ keel dos.library & layers.library & gameport.device

wormy ][ cool

Illuvatar ][ later

Merko ][ kolla: Well, I mean, how many PCs actually have such cards.

wormy ][ and what is a Gen Lock ?

«Quit» ][ Illuvatar (Illuvatar@illuvatar.demon.co.uk) has signed off (Disappearing in a puff of logic).

kolla ][ merkoi: quite a few

ColinT ][ RM: I agree. At the toime, it was fabulous, but it's badly outdated. Actually I gave mine away.

taza ][ ColinT: You now use ?

blastman ][ I want a Framegrabber!

taza ][ blast: Buy one... ;)

«Nick» ][ Jkay_yum is now known as Jkay.

Jooon ][ ColinT: What PC hardware do you have to make it run like 040/40?

blastman ][ Where???

Jkay ][ mm back with lunch.

ColinT ][ Digital camera and PaintShop Pro. No comparison

Blast ][ TA: buy a what ?

Merko ][ kolla: Well.. I haven't checked UAE how well it makes use of this, that is if screen switching is fast on such a setup.. my guess is that it isn't though.

ColinT ][ Joon: K6-2 300.

Blast ][ taza: buy a what ?

blastman ][ A Vlab like they have on the Webcam!

taza ][ blast: comp.sys.amiga.marketplace used... Or your local Amiga store NEW...

Blast ][ taza: huh ?

<-- ][ Jooon (jooon@193.12.73.163) has left this channel.

ashiq ][ Rmerlin: black rulez ;-)

Piru ][ don't mix Blast and blastman

taza ][ ColinT: PaintShopPro paints in NTSC ?

xantigrav ][ Wheres lostman?

taza ][ ColinT: On an NTSC Screen ?

ColinT ][ Paints in 24 bit color, in 24 formats.

taza ][ ColinT: No, would be the answer then ?

ColinT ][ I don't have a need for an NTSC screen. It aquires from many external devices.

blastman ][ Yeah, mix us and you might get a big bang! :)

ashiq ][ casing

kolla ][ merko: I dont count... ask a sales man.. uhm.. are you brittish?

RexxMast ][ ColinT..too bad...for an Antique it does quite well...point is WinUAE cannot even run DCTV..it is NOT an Amiga..PERIOD!

Cade ][ carl are you still having to run up the hill to adjust your TV reception?

Carl ][ Piru: yes, just a recompile.

Cade ][ Colin = Amigan through and through

RMerlin ][ Ashiq: SO, when are you upgrading to NT 5.0? :)

RexxMast ][ Plus you've got Windows sitting under WinUAE just waiting for someone to sneeze and bring the whole machine to its knees!

Carl ][ Harv: I've got a pile of DCTV's in the basement if you know anyone who wants one.

Cade ][ Carl oooo i want one :)

RMerlin ][ Carl: Sign the boxes, sell them, and put the money into Rebol Tech :)

Carl ][ I've even got the CDTV DCTV add in cards in their original boxes.

Cade ][ Rmerling good idea

Carl ][ Piles of other amiga stuff. Must be 20-30 amiga's down there. Afraid to even go down there these days.

«Quit» ][ DrFraggle (~britz@pm-d15.rhein-main.de) has signed off (Ping timeout for DrFraggle[pm-d15.rhein- main.de]).

kolla ][ rm: with a signature? sure.. I need a CD player anyhow =)

* ][ Cade wants to buy an amiga, a friend who sent me his , cough cough eheh, didnt work hehe

--> ][ floyd (floyd@sac16-143.calweb.com) has joined this channel.

* ][ Cade winks at colin

«Quit» ][ jlowery (jlowery@207.224.205.19) has signed off (Ping timeout for jlowery[207.224.205.19]).

taza ][ ColinT: Because DCTV painted in NTSC so PaintShoPro is NOT a replacement for DCTV... ;)

«Quit» ][ alanwall (alanwall@d171.nas17.sonic.net) has signed off (Ping timeout for alanwall[d171.nas17.sonic.net]).

Harv ][ floyd

«Quit» ][ Locutus (~larss@sk-g10.sk.kollegie6400.dk) has signed off (Ping timeout for Locutus[sk- g10.sk.kollegie6400.dk]).

ColinT ][ I only used DCTV to capture video stills.

--> ][ EricGir (EricGir@ppp039.0.mmtl.videotron.net) has joined this channel.

«Quit» ][ kingsmurf (ljessen@192.38.232.12) has signed off (Ping timeout for kingsmurf[192.38.232.12]).

Jkay ][ so .. Im guessing that alan purtle was never able to crash the IRC servers during the conferences like he threatened?

ColinT ][ Taza: My example was probably not appropriate for this crowd:)

taza ][ ColinT: Ah, but it did so MUCH more...

taza ][ ColinT: :)

«OP» ][ TB gives channel operator status to Jkay

Piru ][ Carl is in lag? (or am I?)

Merko ][ kolla: No, swedish.. why?

xantigrav ][ Carl: i still use my CDTV sometimes, what do you want to sell DCTV for CDTV for?

Harv <-- ][ proud CDTV owner :)

ColinT ][ Taza: I could apply text on a HAM screen, but HAM is pretty dull by todays standards.

wormy ][ i have to use HAM

xantigrav ][ xantigrav <-- proud CDTV :)

Piru ][ no ping replies from Carl... I think he crashed or something (doh;)

Blast ][ xantigrav is a CDTV ?

Blast ][ wow

ColinT ][ I'm impressed!

«Quit» ][ Defacto (Defacto@knightboat.demon.co.uk) has signed off (Client exiting).

Harv ][ yes. here, shove this caddy in his mouth. his eyes will light up.

xantigrav ][ xantigrav <-- proud CDTV owner :)

wormy ][ it's a LASER, AAAAAHHHH

TBARS ][ ah lights

«Netsplit» ][ Netsplit detected between servers hiterose.us.amiganet.organd hule.no.amiganet.org

«Netsplit» ][ Users gone due to netsplit:rewd mae98 Ashke Carl SlamDunk zonum RexxMast jester AmigaMMC Cade RMerlin eaglelil Wrpd3k RaceFan floyd TA kolla Mostro ashiq Alek Obider Pisi NorthWay Bernie leifhv cwallBED aardvark teq

xantigrav ][ Is my sister still at MAE98?

Piru ][ god

Piru ][ a split

gEnEx ][ egads

Piru ][ that explains it

Harv ][ satan's hand is backon the cam.

--> ][ mae98 (webcam@dyn1-tnt1-230.columbus.oh.ameritech.net) has joined this channel.

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«Voice» ][ thule.no.amiganet.org gives voice to mae98, Carl

Harv ][ notice the barely visible evil sixth finger.

ashiq ][ aaarghh

Piru ][ nice split

* ][ kolla is utterly lagged

ColinT ][ Rexx: Please don't hate me for switching to WinUAE. When the development of the AMiga stopped, I still needed to expand my computing experience, so I switched to a common platform...

Harv ][ hate.. hate.. hate..

Dave ][ no sympathy here

«Netsplit» ][ Netsplit detected between servers hule.no.amiganet.organd inux.us.amiganet.org

«Netsplit» ][ Users gone due to netsplit:rewd mae98 Ashke Carl SlamDunk zonum RexxMast jester AmigaMMC Cade RMerlin eaglelil Wrpd3k RaceFan floyd

Dave ][ you will be keeled

--> ][ mae98 (webcam@dyn1-tnt1-230.columbus.oh.ameritech.net) has joined this channel.

--> ][ Carl (REBOL@x2-80-212.pacific.net) has joined this channel.

--> ][ Ashke (dlund@ppp-151-164-38-192.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined this channel.

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--> ][ jester (philo@iits128.onr.com) has joined this channel.

--> ][ Cade (kd@129.252.214.162) has joined this channel.

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«Voice» ][ linux.us.amiganet.org gives voice to mae98, Carl

SilvrDrgn ][ DIE DIE DIE! :-)

Piru ][ and again

Cade ][ haha

RMerlin ][ Whiterose seems to have bit the dust, I can't reach it.

blastman ][ KILL HIM!!! :)

Nadir ][ ohhhh

--> ][ bumbler (thovernwli@ip95.bel-d12.nwlink.com) has joined this channel.

RexxMast ][ ahhhh they're here

RMerlin ][ There.

Piru ][ this ircnet is fubar

Harv ][ irc sucks.

RexxMast ][ I could not connect to whiterose for days

ColinT ][ Ah, Dave - gimma a break:) My WinUAE Amiga is a pleasure for me.

kolla ][ harv: you said it.. :)

--> ][ Mostro (root@ppp04-gw1.trident.nettuno.it) has joined this channel.

RMerlin ][ Piru: We have no control over the Internet's overloaded routers...

Dave ][ nup. i have to hurt you

xantigrav ][ ColinT: How fast is your PC?

Dave *][ hurt*

ColinT ][ K62-300

Piru ][ RMerlin, yeh

«Quit» ][ RexxMast (Cyb@47ppp9.gulftel.com) has signed off (Demo timeout).

ColinT *][ ouch*

Cade ][ snap with colin

ashiq ][ ColinT: yeah, i played IK+, it felt like my Amiga ;-)

blastman ][ Slow.... :)

xantigrav ][ ColinT: Yes but can you run MAGE on it?

--> ][ RexxMast (Cyb@47ppp9.gulftel.com) has joined this channel.

ColinT ][ What is Mage?

ashiq ][ ColinT: only problems are the sprites...

RMerlin ][ Carl: They had so much stuff to sell I wouldn't have been surprised if I had seen a Sidecar listed there ;)

Piru ][ well one thing is sure. it will take some time before uae is fast as my (classic:) amiga

--> ][ kingsmurf (ljessen@192.38.232.12) has joined this channel.

ColinT ][ So far, sprite collision is the major defect.

Jkay ][ on-screen "Peace to yo muvuh."

ashiq ][ ColinT: right you are

* ][ RexxMast thinks it is great that others enjoy WinUAE, but it is still not an Amiga..period

Dave ][ does turrican use sprite collisions?

wormy ][ i have an 133mHz PC and a 7 mHZ A2000 i live life in the slow lane 8-(

--> ][ alanwall (alanwall@d171.nas17.sonic.net) has joined this channel.

xantigrav ][ I doubt if UAE is as fast as my Amiga PPC 233Mhz & 060 50Mhz.

TBARS ][ Netsplits - Amiganet Sweden is more stable - though it's the long way around.

ColinT ][ If itr will make you all feel better, I will abandon WinUAE when my PCI Amiga card gets here.

xantigrav ][ ColinT: Yes but can you use the Video toaster with it?

RexxMast ][ xantigrav..yeah no sit

kolla ][ xanti: it isnt, but it can easily be with faster computers

--> ][ Yoyo^TWL (yoyo@ppp-wct75.katowice.tpnet.pl) has joined this channel.

Cade ][ whos that silly one using the laserpen?

Piru ][ oh

RexxMast ][ no he cant nor can he use DCTV...AD516 etc, etc, etc, etc,

* ][ Cade is looking fwd to inside out to stick it in my pc

Piru ][ yeah... the cam is fooked

ColinT ][ XAN: Nope, and I could not use it on my 1000, 600 or 1200 either:)

Jkay ][ who thinks it's a good idea to shine a laser pointer into a camera?

Cade ][ not me jkay

--> ][ ktf^f451 (~Felix@a-mi29-59.tin.it) has joined this channel.

RMerlin ][ Jkay: Did they invited a Borg? :)

wormy ][ not a good, coul burn it

Merko ][ RexxMast: Andrew Korn put it well in the last CU.. "it's an Amiga... ..just a crap Amiga" =D

Harv ][ see? now satan is projecting his satanic rays at the camera.

wormy ][ could

xantigrav ][ ColinT: they had a tower kit for the 500 so you could use the Toaster, same for the A1200.

Carl ][ The webcam seem to be stuck on a half frame... anyone else seeing that?

Dave ][ daleluck@ieee.org didnt work

wormy ][ yep

lurk ][ Piru is here himself

Cade ][ carl now and then it happens to me

Seb ][ Does the GSM audio sound better on a Win program than with GIR?

Carl ][ dave, try dluck then.

Jkay ][ Carl: no .. reload your proxy/cache

Piru ][ lurk, heh

ColinT ][ xan: The Toaster is not my bag. I'm into still graphics and web work.

RexxMast ][ Merko...I strongly disagree with that...it is not an Amiga..:)

lurk ][ talking of the devil

RMerlin ][ That's a common problem with webcams

RMerlin ][ Webcam softwares lack double buffering ;)

Piru ][ Carl, works here.. try hitting reaload

Piru ][ reload even

RexxMast ][ Merko..what Amiga hardware can it use?

Dave ][ nope still nothing

kolla ][ it happens when you load a halffinnished pic :)

Merko ][ RexxMast: Well, I don't really care what it is, I'm not interested. :)

Dave ][ dluck@ieee.org dont work

RexxMast ][ me either

wormy ][ i play around with graphics usind AdPro on my A2000 with 8mb of RAM and a 68000

wormy ][ trying doing that with a PC

* ][ TB thinks its about time to go and sleep.

«Quit» ][ floyd (floyd@sac16-143.calweb.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

wormy ][ i use HAM mode

RexxMast ][ wormy..no shit

* ][ kolla has started using gimpl on his linux/ppc amy :)

<-- ][ SilvrDrgn (mrye@usr-401-1-55.ISD.net) has left this channel.

kolla -][ l

SlamDunk ][ Carl: What's the WebCam address ?

xantigrav ][ I played with UAE on my PC, it was not very good. Sprites missing in games, slow, variuos other problems.

<-- ][ Dukeni (Duken@cs4198.pp.htv.fi) has left this channel.

--> ][ floyd (floyd@sac16-143.calweb.com) has joined this channel.

Harv ][ ffoyd

alanwall ][ logging and going out to eat at parents-Carl will call u Monday :)

wormy ][ sounds like a PC

kolla ][ slam: ugn.amiga.org/webcam/cam.jpg

blastman ][ The laser melted it!

Harv -][ f +l damn keyboard

ColinT ][ wormy: Thanks, but I prefer modern HW. I have 128MB of 8ns ram. No worries, mate:)

ktf^][ f451 anyone has the transcript of yesterday scpeech??

RexxMast ][ wormy..I can edit massive sound files with very little RAM using a Sunrize Studio 16 AD516..try doing that on a PC or a MAC...ROTFL!

xantigrav ][ Is my sister still at MAE98?

«Quit» ][ oNyxA (oNyxA@dadovago1187.dada.it) has signed off (Ping timeout for oNyxA[dadovago1187.dada.it]).

AmigaMMC ][ gotta goooooooo bye!

wormy ][ i want to upgrade my A2000, but i'm 15, there fore, no money

SlamDunk ][ TKS...Kolla:

Merko ][ wormy: Well.. noone would want to try that on a PC, but that doesn't really matter today.. what matters is that even the fastest PC is so bloated that it's slow and frustrating to use.

«Quit» ][ AmigaMMC (amigapal@Rad2.02.Hpu.Edu) has signed off (Read error to AmigaMMC[Rad2.02.Hpu.Edu]: Connection reset by peer).

Carl ][ dave: odd. Perhaps you can find him on whitepages. RJ probably knows it.

Seb ][ transcript! that's a good idea... is there a URL for it (possibly?)

Piru ][ it should show up in www.amiga.com I think

--> ][ NorthWay (bnost@ti15a02-0056.dialup.online.no) has joined this channel.

TB ][ Show side is working on a better version of the speech.

blastman ][ http://ugn.amiga.org/webcam/cam.jpg

«Quit» ][ Azure (azure@slip139-92-12-116.hm.de.ibm.net) has signed off (Ping timeout for Azure[slip139-92- 12-116.hm.de.ibm.net]).

ktf^][ f451 piru: yeah, right...;)

«Quit» ][ blastman (blastman@ppp-003.m2-1.syr.ican.net) has signed off (Client exiting).

RexxMast ][ The AD516 is an antique...Sunrize bit the dust about 1993 and still to this day there is NO equal on the PC or the MAC..nor can the new HD multitrackers touch it

ashiq ][ ?

Dave ][ re northway

Jkay ][ CNN - "India's poor tap into video e-mail technology." It's always the best thing to leap /past/ decent medical care and food distribution right to the video e-mail. It's kinda like reaganomics.

RexxMast ][ just yeaterday I witnessed a brand new 400Mhz PC nearly choke and die trying to print an image from Corel..it was pathetic..

TB ][ Bye everyone... your now left in the hands of Jkay. God help us all :)

Piru ][ oh btw anyone using BlizKick here? I managed to fix it for blizzppc

wormy ][ i wish they would have an Amiga show in NewOrleans or BatonRouge

RexxMast ][ me too

Jkay ][ who? what? I wasnt even asked to help this time ;)

TB ][ Thanks again Carl.

RexxMast ][ I'm about 3 hours from New Orleans

TB ][ jk: Can you help?

TB ][ jk: have been now :)

Jkay ][ sure.

wormy ][ i'm aout 45 min. an hour

RexxMast ][ Carl..I cannot thank you enough for the AmigaOS..and now REBOL! :)

<-- ][ ktf^f451 (~Felix@a-mi29-59.tin.it) has left this channel.

wormy ][ who is Carl ?

Obider ][ i think Carl is using mirc... there are some really funny exploits in mirc you know... incredible easy ones...

--> ][ Tronn (Jeff@tnt-1-77.easynet.co.uk) has joined this channel.

«Quit» ][ TB (AmigaUGN@209.79.136.213) has signed off ().

* ][ RexxMast slaps wormy

wormy ][ i'm using MIrc

ColinT ][ I sure like stirring up trouble:)

* ][ Piru slaps Piru around a bit with a large trout

SlamDunk ][ TB: e-mail me...

wormy ][ no..who is he, i'm new to the amiga world

Piru ][ ;)

Dave ][ obider, where is dave

Carl ][ Thanks, RexxMast. Still a lot more work to be done, but it will get there.

Obider ][ i heard dave was not here man

* ][ RexxMast slaps ColinT

--> ][ Rebbi (rebbi@tcnet05-08.austin.texas.net) has joined this channel.

Jkay ][ Carl: what is your hope for REBOL's future? Where do you see it going?

Dave ][ heh

RMerlin ][ Jkay: To the topless, with caldi :)

Dave ][ rmerlin is the stripper

Piru ][ lol

Dave ][ take it all off baybee

RMerlin ][ Nah

Jkay ][ Finale will never break even at a show if Caldi stuffs the profits into some chick's cleavage every time.

RexxMast ][ Carl..AmigaOS has made my life a complete joy! :) And I know that I'm really going to enjoy REBOL as well...it is very, very nice!

RMerlin ][ Only thing I strip are UNIX binaries :)

wormy ][ CTION akes careful aim...... and fires»»»»»––––––––›........ oohhh darn missed!!/me ites her target again......»»»»»––––––––›........ oohhh darn missed again!! o does the 3rd!! »»»»»––––––––› must be shooting with my eyes closed!! he fourth one hits it mark!! »»»»»––––––––›RexxMast 's _I_)IghT

«Quit» ][ xantigrav (xantigrav@usr41-dialup12.mix1.Bloomington.cw.net) has signed off (Read error to xantigrav[usr41-dialup12.mix1.Bloomington.cw.net]: Network is unreachable).

wormy ][ .

Jkay ][ what the HELL was that

RMerlin ][ Ewwww...

_bladez_ ][ rexx: have you managed to send emails with it yet?

Piru ][ ouch

Joker ][ argh kids

RMerlin ][ Color flood

Piru ][ wormy, that was too much

RMerlin ][ wormy: Don't do that.

ashiq ][ haha

RexxMast -][ bladez_..haven't tried that yet..probably later on tonight

wormy ][ i'm a him.....my mirc pop-ups need chanign

--> ][ xantigrav (xantigrav@usr46-dialup6.mix1.Bloomington.cw.net) has joined this channel.

Dave ][ bcpl made my life a living hell ;)

wormy ][ sorry

«Nick» ][ aTafk is now known as aTmosh.

* ][ Blast looks at atmosh

«Quit» ][ Nadir (f77nb76e@193.10.145.8) has signed off (Write error to Nadir[193.10.145.8], closing link).

--> ][ laire (~laire@193.174.12.210) has joined this channel.

aTmosh ][ Blast?

Obider ][ i guess blast is an idiot

_bladez_ ][ rexx: ahh ... it seem rebol goes into an endless loop ... but looking at the output from netstat it shows closed connections to the pop3 and smtp mail servers.

aTmosh ][ Hehe

RMerlin ][ Hell's Laire

Dave ][ hairy lairy

«Quit» ][ Seb (tsg@ip213-168.cc.interlog.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

* ][ Blast slaps Obider

Piru ][ re lai

aTmosh ][ obider: who is atmosh?

Obider ][ hmmm... atmosh is the ultimate coolest person on the face of the whole wide world

floyd ][ bye

«Quit» ][ floyd (floyd@sac16-143.calweb.com) has signed off (Client exiting).

Piru ][ obider, where can I find porn?

aTmosh ][ Good bot :)

Obider ][ porn is at http://www.microsoft.com

Obider ][ :)

RexxMast ][ _bladez_ I have had REBOL lock a few times..not the whole machine though. I can run it again though

Piru *][ g*

aTmosh ][ You guys have been teaching him? :)

Harv ][ atmosh has his own little docile norwegian bot. how cute.

wormy ][ i have a question

NorthWay ][ Dave: what've you done with bvpl?

aTmosh ][ Harv: it's not mine

RexxMast ][ and that is?

wormy ][ what is a gen-lcok, i just as wondering

Dave ][ northway: nothing

wormy ][ lock

ashiq ][ hmmm its very dark at the show ..... power problem?

Jkay ][ Harv: diring takeover attempts, it just suurenders :)

Harv ][ Correct answers: $5. Wrong answers: $1. Dumb looks: Free.

Dave ][ northway: well, shfted lots of pointers

_bladez_ ][ rexx: yeah .. i've had to use scout to remove the task and shell window to get rid of them though.

wormy ][ ha

RexxMast ][ _bladez_ I'm sure the debugging has already begun

«Quit» ][ RedTeoPPC (matteo@pv1p006.centroin.it) has signed off (Client exiting).

ashiq ][ and very small

Carl ][ Gotta run... Lunch time with Cindy. See you all later. Thanks for your support with REBOL and we're looking forward to doing great things in the days ahead. Bye.

--> ][ BIGF^cute (BIGFoot@t5o101p46.telia.com) has joined this channel.

Harv ][ thanks carl. seeya.

Piru ][ byes Carl

aTmosh ][ Bye Carl, good luck

RexxMast ][ _bladez_ Scout...it very cool indeed!

Dave ][ cya carl

_bladez_ ][ rexx: very =)

Blast ][ bye Carl

AmigaInfo ][ Byw Carl

RexxMast ][ Cya Carl...keep up the great work!

* ][ RMerlin slaps RexxMast and _bladez_.

_bladez_ ][ cya carl

RMerlin ][ Use a real program, dammit!

Jkay ][ thanks for your continuiung AMiga support, Carl.

RexxMast ][ like what

_bladez_ ][ rm: like what =)

kolla ][ bye bye carl :)

_bladez_ ][ ?

mrpop ][ seya on the list Grin

RMerlin ][ RexxMast: SysInspector :)

aTmosh [][ GVOMeter] ][ 0%»»»»»25%»»»»»50%»»»»»75%»»»»»100% ][ (100%)

Piru ][ hehehe

Harv ][ r.i.p. roddy mcdowell :(

RexxMast ][ ahhhh ok..I have that as well! :)

Piru ][ zap sucks on cam :)

<-- ][ Carl (REBOL@x2-80-212.pacific.net) has left this channel.

Carl Sassenrath leaves.

_bladez_ ][ rm: got that somewhere on my HD :)

RMerlin ][ Feh. Kids today...

RMerlin ][ :)

Jkay ][ zap is away .. asleep. it's like 4am where he is

_bladez_ ][ [re webcam] ROFL

Dave ][ 6:40am here

«Nick» ][ mae98 is now known as tekmage.

Piru ][ oh:)

tekmage ][ re all

aTmosh ][ re tek

Jkay ][ tekky

tekmage ][ I'm going to go off line now, to clean up

Piru ][ 11:40pm here:)

aTmosh ][ tek: got a better GSM yet?

tekmage ][ hey guys

Blast ][ aTmosh: did you place my query window at the back ? :)

aTmosh ][ tek: or mp3?

Tronn ][ 9.40pm here

aTmosh ][ Blast: no, I ignore you :)

END OF LOG