Perhaps this Log should be titled "99 bottles of beer on the wall, take one down, pass it around. And when we are done, we can all meet at the Betty Ford Clinic for rehab." But will we move forward with such a title?

Perhaps there is a much more productive title to give it. Only it'd be different for each person. A matter of each persons ability to apply a positive and productive perspective, rather than random selection out of the spectrum of conotations that can be applied to most anything written.

It's a Jigsaw Puzzle to try and put together a title that works for everyone in the same way. If'n we only had a picture to go by?

Enter the Amigas twilite zone. Or "where the hell is that light coming from and is it real?"

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«Topic» Topic for channel #Amiga is New OS 3.5 site on ¦ new 060/ppc libs on

«Topic» Topic for channel #Amiga has been set by Ragnarog on 18:24:49 15-03-1999

«Names» Users on #amiga: ThreeSEAS DZ rev Sc00by Fanger Multitask sidewind CamaroRS fleg HammerD Timmer Lizard bolero_aw frotz Jacob @Darxide GolemZzzz Sid DrWho @Ng Zonum donna NANv DudenTV RobR newlook Blizzard SimD Foobar2 Supra Cryo @SkaiBOFH spuug Sibbi Blotto Lil

«Names» End of /NAMES list.

«User Mode» You are now invisible

«Time» 921537519 -18302 :Monday March 15 1999- 22:43 -05:00

«Mode» Current modes for #amiga: no messaging

«Mode» Channel #amiga was created on 00:32:15 01-01-1996

{Sc00by} DZ: the nicest feature to me is simply to see that 3.5 isn't the end of the line for updates.

{Sc00by} hey three.

{DZ} Sc00by: I agree with you. I guess I was kind of hoping that Amiga Inc. was further along in the development process and would show something of the NG at the show.

{ThreeSEAS} Hi

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Is that you Tim?

{ThreeSEAS} yes

{ThreeSEAS} or should I say T.Rue

{ThreeSEAS} ?

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Pretty hard on Jim in the Newsgroup today heh?

{Sc00by} DZ: I'll buy 3.5 just to have the builtin internet support and printer drivers

{Cryo} 2rued

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* DrWho noted how Collas could call the current AINC staff incompetent in a nice way

{DZ} Sc00by: I just wish I could pre-order or something to get it here quicker!

* Sc00by wonders if newlook killed Donna since she's not online ;-)

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: It's not what I want. Driving over 500 mile (one way) to end up setting in a hotel room for three hour knowing what I did....

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Elaborate . . .

{Cryo} tim, you're just too tightly wrapped

{ThreeSEAS} I went to the show because I needed too, for alot of reasons. None of which had anything to do with butting heads with anyone.

{Cryo} I left pretty much with the same conclusion.. legacy is dead

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: C'mon Tim let us in on what you knew.

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: maybe, I really did hear what you where saying to me

{Cryo} yeh, you needed to lighten up

{Cryo} you're way more bitter than I am :)

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: that's a real difficult thing

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: What do you think of Luca? Does he really have insight into what is going on at Amiga Inc.?

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: I'm not bitter, that is one of the things misunderstood about me.

{DZ} Sc00by: Have you ever met Dr. Havemose?

{ThreeSEAS} I'm a user that want a fair honest and genuine opportunity to earn back my losses. I don't want anything being handed to me for free

{Cryo} well you seemed bitter.. btw, we took care of the cost of the coffee :)

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: then the coffee got paid for twice.

{Cryo} oh? heh.. lame waitress

{ThreeSEAS} I paid two dollars for it at the front as I left.

{Sc00by} DZ: several times

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: I am a user too! How can we affect change in this situation?

{Cryo} we cut out of there just after you left anyway.. something about having an IRS person in the room didn't appeal

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: I should have left it on the table, sorry.

{Cryo} oh, no problem at all

{Sc00by} Cryo: sorry about the IRS person, that was Bob S.' idea

{ThreeSEAS} I believe Lamar had something to do with the IRS agent in regards to setting up AAi.

{Cryo} you should have at least relaxed for a while and made fun of the other losers

{ThreeSEAS} it was ment to be a good thing

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: I don't losers, at least not as all there is to any one person.

{DZ} Sc00by: I listened to his NG presentation in Toronto last year and was VERY impressed by his vision. He noted several "issues" with Classic OS that needed fixing and how he was going to do it.

{Sc00by} Cryo: Bob Scharp did it. He didn't explain to her WHY she was coming either. when she found out we were all User Groups, she kinda went "oh, then this doesn't apply to you" and left ...

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{ThreeSEAS} Some of the hardest people on me in the newsgroups I've turned around and pointed out genuine talent that if they only used it in this or that way....

{ThreeSEAS} ScOOby: whoa, she didn't know. Hmmmm

{Sc00by} DZ: Os5 is going to be cool, no doubt. As long as you can get over the fact that it isn't going to be a rebottled 3.1

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: I noticed Dr. H posted to the Newsgroup again today . . . twice!

{frotz} threeseas: sure, but suggesting that their sisters might be suited to the porn industry doesnt always go over well with some folks.

{Cryo} hahhaha

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{Cryo} so the IRS was totaly useless

{Cryo} that's .. amazing.

{DZ} Sc00by: I concur. The as yet undefined "Convergence" APIs sound interesting.

{ThreeSEAS} frotz: what? porn sisters? :)

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: it often isn't what you say, it's the fact that you sometimes come across as some type of cooksey mutant wannabe.

{Sc00by} Cryo: interesting to talk to, but for our purposes, yes.

{frotz} scooby: my point exactly. take the meds, spare the posts.

{Cryo} sc00b, until there's a written API for it.. I wait.

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: Dr H.. posted? I didn't notice this, but I'm currently getting two feeds and don't keep up as well.

{Cryo} there's been enough sunshine blown up people's asses

{Sc00by} Cryo: I agree, I've already got a "save me one" noted with Dr. H.

{frotz} doesnt it occur to you that if these guys were really working on serious development they wouldnt be posting in the newsgroups in the first place?

{Cryo} I'm waiting to see how many heads roll in 6 months.

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Yes. One to note that the e-mail address at was fixed and another to defend the development.

{Sc00by} frotz: but there you have a slight misunderstanding.

{frotz} cryo: how many are there to roll? it's not like it's GM.

{ThreeSEAS} Scooby: as far as how I come off, it's all words - B&W and I've watched how interpretation really is a major part.

{ThreeSEAS} IE

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{frotz} scooby: maybe. go ahead and clarify.

{Zonum2} re all from WinUAE :)

{DZ} frotz: it is true that I would hope they are not posting rather than working. But what about catching up on community news after a workday?

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{Sc00by} frotz: they're in serious hiring right now, so Allan has every right to get into the newsgroups. Remember, these guys may be with the "company" but they also want to be (and in some cases are) a part of the community.

{Cryo} hey, who let purtle out of his tank again? :P)

{frotz} DZ: do you recall this sort of thing ever happening with companies that are doing serious work? i.e. what was the last real company with real products you saw where the developers were posting on usenet during a major development cycle.

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{ThreeSEAS} Many have stepped in to speakup fo another, only to have the other respond to my post totally different. Even now there are those speaking up for Jim, but Jim knows better what where he is comming from and in a better position to see what I'm saying to him

{Sc00by} frotz: as I said, they're still hiring staff right now.

{frotz} sc00by: ok, you might be right about that.

{Cryo} yeh

{Cryo} the question is.. what will they get?

{Cryo} Joanne Dow doing scsi drivers

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{frotz} joanne dow rules.

{Cryo} I feel faint.

{DZ} frotz: The whole point of this exercise is that the Amiga and it's community are not like the "other" companies.

{Cryo} your definition of 'rules'.. is interesting

{Sc00by} frotz: from the stats I heard, the staff they're looking for is very, very, VERY serious stuff.

{frotz} DZ: in that they dont have real products or real profits.

{ThreeSEAS} frotz: joanne and I butted heads, and believe it or not it happened by accident

* snapper smiles

{Cryo} joanne butts heads with everyone

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: gee, you butting heads with someone, there's a surprise ;-)

{DZ} frotz: At one point either did the original Amiga Inc.!

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{frotz} cryo: she has some clues, i know, she shared some of them once. i'm impressed by clueful folks who retain some civility.

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: I got that from you before about joanne

{Cryo} 'no comment'

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{frotz} cryo: i think maybe i'm the one person who joanne never butted heads with. in fact, when i was having problems with CATS during the original bankruptcy, she was awesomely helpful.

{Cryo} "old cliqs take forever to die"

{Sc00by} helluva lotta splits tonight...

{ThreeSEAS} frotz: yes joanne does have some clues. Only I'm afraid she doesn't put them together

{DZ} Sc00by: I have 10 bucks that says Metrowerks Code Warrior is included in OS5 DEV.

{frotz} threeseas: oh like you can talk.

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{ThreeSEAS} 1 + 1 does = 2

{Cryo} DZ don't think such things.

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{Sc00by} DZ: no comment, but I'd be just fine with that since I use it already

{DZ} Cryo: C'mon its better than StormC

{Cryo} that's like saying you can only use Storm C and Storm Wizard for 3.6

{Cryo} er 5

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{Kosh} re

* Kosh explodes

{SimD} kosher :)

{DZ} Cryo: Yes, but they need to provide a decent baseline IDE!

* Dustbin 's ISP is shagged.. logged in via terminal :P

{Dustbin} bah.. this sucks.. trying PPP again..

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{Cryo} the most tested compiler in the world is gcc/egcs.. and NeXT had a wonderful GUI for it

{ThreeSEAS} frotz: one of the pissers about me saying something positive about another is that the seem to accept my honor of them but to then use it to put me down. bitting the hand that feeds you sort of thing

* Sc00by at this point is simply waiting for dev machines.

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: What deep dark Jim Collas secrets have you to share with us tonight?

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: I wonder if Jason Compton has changed his mind about the STB dillema yet?

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: i started to respond to this, and I do want to

{Cryo} Dz, I have pics of Tim Rue and Jim in one of the side rooms doing the wild thing.

{ThreeSEAS} :)

{DZ} Cryo: Whoa! VIC 69!

{ThreeSEAS} Funny about what someone in csa.misc said about jim being the devil.

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{frotz} threeseas: more like "this guy who i have no respect for just did one of his more irritating things, he complimented me, which means that along with his other stupid opinions is a positive opinion of me, hence positive opinions of me are stupid."

{Sc00by} Jason Compton, believe it or not, was quite interested in the Amiga at the show, now let's see what he has to say later on.

{ThreeSEAS} I got AC inthe mail when I got back from the show. Jim looks like he could be the devil.

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: I do not discount what Jeff has done behind closed doors, but I think Jim will make a difference.

{Cryo} yeh, Jason and his squeeze was pretty hot into the Amiga stuff

{ThreeSEAS} But then my web picture looks to some like I'm charles manson..

{Cryo} I was impressed

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{ThreeSEAS} I guess we all have a little devil in us? :)

{Cryo} I have at least two

{Cryo} I went througgh the line twice since giving away your soul was so easy

{Sc00by} Cryo: I was impressed at the whole show in general. The fact that the crowd was at least as big as last year is a big step in the right direction.

{DZ} Sc00by: What do you think of the Escena PPC card specs?

{Cryo} 1000 people at a swap meet/raffle wasn't impressive.

{Sc00by} Cryo: I wann know who sold their soul on eBay for $1mil

{Cryo} the blimpcam..

{Cryo} that was impressive.

{ThreeSEAS} frotz: something like that (my complimenting others) make me shy off of doing it and I have my opinions of Jim as well (positive and negative or full spectrum)

{Sc00by} DZ: I'm hoping the best for Escena but they don't make technical sense to me.

{DZ} Sc00by: I have an A4000 and will need it to carry me through to OS5 DEV.

{Cryo} that was clearly the "innovative" part that Jim was referring to.

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: I'm trying to get to giving you an answer

{frotz} threeseas: thanks for sharing. next time, dont feel pressured to answer questions that arent asked, you'll save yourself a ton of time. 8)

{Sc00by} DZ: pushing 200+ mhz over the comparatively slow Zorro bus makes no sense.

{DZ} Sc00by: How fast is the CPU bus?

{DZ} Sc00by: On an A4000.

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: It's difficult to go point for point with what Jim said. To do so here or in the newsgroups. And the reason is because of what I've been thru so far.

{Sc00by} DZ: I'd have to look it up, I actually can't remember at the moment but I do remember it's nowhere near 200mhz

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Bottom line: Will Jim take this project where it needs to go? Will we see OS 5 DEV before Y2K?

{Cryo} so you don't think this is just baiting along the legacy users.. herding them along into a base specifically to buy the new platform because they feel they can't sell it on it's own right? sort of a captive audience?

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: I only really have one question for you and it's asked in sincerity, not in malice. What will it ever take to make Tim Rue happy?

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: what I've been thru suggest that my answering point for point will invariably lead to myself being screwed. It's a why pay respect when we have what we want thing.

{Cryo} their timelines were unbelieveable

{Cryo} Q4 major launch, Q1 major launch, Q2 major launch

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Please Tim, just answer the question: Will OS 5DEV appear under the direction of Jim Collas by Y2K?

{Sc00by} Cryo: not given the hiring specs and Gateway push.

{Cryo} and it's already middle of march, and they haven't even really began development on 3.5

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{ThreeSEAS} DZ: This is much of why I spent so much time inthe hotel friday nite trying to figure out out to approach Jim and why I spent three hours between leaving the show and actually leaving town, in the hotel.

{Jacob} cryo: sure they have, they've been uh working on it for uh the last 2 years

* snapper smiles

{Sc00by} Cryo: 3.5 and 5.0 are seperate and concurrent dev cycles. 3.5 by HP and 5.0 by AI

{Cryo} sc00b, the problem with hiring specs is you're not hiting the old Amiga crowd

{DZ} Cryo: Don't forget Dr. H has already completed architectural design. Only coding needs to be done.

{SimD} only?

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{ThreeSEAS} DZ: No, I don't think so. About OS5 DEV (in fact it has been clearly stated that it will not happen before y2k)

{Sc00by} Cryo: explain?

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Why didn't you just walk up to him and speak to him?

{Cryo} sc00b.. I won't go into how _BAD_ TERRIBLY WRONG _BAD_ it is to release OS source code to a 3rd party.

{Cryo} to control

{Cryo} but 6 months for a complete OS release is pretty insane, even with neutrinos core already code

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{Cryo} there used to be this thing called Q&A

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: a wall went up with what he had said.

{Cryo} er QA

{donna} re

{snapper} Cryo Doesn't really matter if you;ve written it off ;)

{Jacob} cryo: probably because it will be 95% neutrinos

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{Sc00by} Cryo: re 3.5 source code to 3rd parties, perhaps, unless that's the most you can do to keep support flowing for the classic platforms. Apple secretly did it with the Apple II

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: There was a wall guarding the Eastern Bloc that has fallen!

{Sc00by} hey donna

{Cryo} snapper, the only thing I've written off is you :)

{donna} hiya scooby

* snapper smiles

{DZ} Hello Donna!

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: a wall with what wasn't said, ---- the whole picture of what Jim presented missing parts, wrong parts and all

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: What specifically was missing Tim?

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: once again, your opinion.

{donna} hi dz

{Cryo} tim, "inconsistant parts"

{donna} darx seen zap

{Cryo} I caught quote a few of those in both his speeches

-Darxide- zap (~zap@* signed off 12 hours and 52 minutes ago (Ping timeout for Zap[])

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: that to

{sidewind} donna re

{donna} scooby,hows things ?

{sidewind} !

{Cryo} that's why I stuck around for the banquet to see if he would correct them

{sidewind} anyone seen tek

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: I need more than these vague general comments. Lets hear what is really going on!

{donna} hi sidewind

{sidewind} mage

{sidewind} tekage

{sidewind} anyone seen tekmage?

{ThreeSEAS} ryo: did he?

{ThreeSEAS} -C

{Sc00by} Cryo: he made the same speech twice, how is that inconsistant?

{ThreeSEAS} ++c

{donna} darx seen tekmage

-Darxide- tekmage (~Route5@* signed off 1 day and 8 hours ago (Ping timeout for tekmage[])

{Sc00by} donna: very busy

{Sc00by} tek is prolly still on his way home.

{DZ} Donna: what do you do for a living?

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: What do you do for a living?

{Cryo} it wasn't exactly the same.. it was when he would digress

{snapper} I lnpw ;)

{donna} dz,nothing right now .

{DZ} Sc00by: What do you do for a living?

{Sc00by} DZ: network admin for NASA

{DZ} Sc00by: Cool!

{Cryo} and his lack of explaining desktop.. and internet appliance disturbed me

* Kosh explodes

{donna} damn rain

{donna} hey kosh !

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{Kosh} donna

{Cryo} sc00b, where? NAS?

{ThreeSEAS} If Jim has plans for community involvement, why was that left empty or extreamly fuzzy, while other parts where touched on that could exist in such form if there relly is plans for community involvement

{donna} 5 days until the wedding .

{ThreeSEAS} could = couldn't

{Sc00by} Cryo: Marshall Space Flight Center

{Cryo} tim, yeh.. no mention of handling usergroups, or developers

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: Why did you not put up your hand and ask him?

{snapper} Cryo Anything that isn't desktop is internet appliance now ;)

{Cryo} my printer isn't a network appliance dammit.. neither is my cup of coffee

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: because a lot of the community plans were hashed out in the UGN closed door meeting with him Saturday morning.

{snapper} scooby: Seen the booster cam footage ?

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{ThreeSEAS} Butthen this emergency meeting with 12 member of user groups - during a special meeting sponsored by these very users?

{Cryo} ah yes. the elite meeting

{DZ} Sc00by: Any details about the plans? When will we see the results?

{Cryo} with the elite hand out

{Sc00by} Cryo: as the UGN Director, I can firmly state that Jim C is very well aware of the needs of User Groups

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: putting up my hand to ask?? there was/is alot more to it than asking a question or two.

{JacobE} UGN

{JacobE} huha uhuh

{Kosh} Don't they show Voyager?

{DZ} Sc00by: Well what kind of plans are afoot?

{JacobE} that's UPN f00l

{Cryo} ooooh

{Kosh} Doh!

{frotz} "i am aware of your needs"

{Sc00by} DZ: we just got home from the show early this morning, and I've yet to call and start pushing.

{ThreeSEAS} Scooby: community plans? Closed doors? Whatis wrong with this picture?

{DZ} Sc00by: Anything I can do to help?

{Cryo} I'm stil way pissed that my A2K announcement was tossed into the shitter

{Cryo} so I guess I'll do the press release thing

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: you asking stupid questions

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: who tossed it?

{Cryo} you do the PR's sc00b?

{DZ} Sc00by: Where do I sign up?

{Sc00by} by "closed doors" I mean simply that he wanted to talk to UG presidents and UGN staff in a personal (small group manner) to get our feedback.

{Sc00by} Cryo: no, Niteflite is the UGN PR guy

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{Cryo} tim, bob kept postponing it.. was supposed to be after the annex thing on Sunday .. then before the raffle.. then after the raffle.. then while I was standing in front of him, he told everyone thanks for coming.. etc... then turned off the mike while I jus

{Cryo} looked at him

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{DZ} Cryo: postponing what?

{Cryo} oh well.

{Kosh} robr

{RobR} kosh

{Cryo} I didn't need it anyway

{ThreeSEAS} ScOOby: feedback from these individual that intrupted a planned lunchen? I don't buy that.

{Cryo} DZ:

{donna} kosh,did you find some food ?

{Kosh} nope

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: I don't really care what you buy or don't. He came to me and said he wanted to meet with a max of 12 people that morning at 11am, what was I supposed to do, say no?

{donna} poor kosh

{Kosh} Was I looking for some?

{ThreeSEAS} ScOOby: do you have any idea ow much I've seenthis sort of "sorry it couldn't be helpped" sort of thing?

* Dustbin hands kosh the other half of the carpet he was eating

{snapper} I wonder if Kosh is Y2K compliant, and what that will mean ;)

{donna} hehe dustrag

{DZ} Sc00by: what was said at the meeting with Jim?

{Sc00by} ThreeSEAS: again, nmp

{ThreeSEAS} ScOOby: and we are no closer

* Kosh has a rare bone disease that prevents pronounciation of the '2' in Y K

{Sc00by} DZ: Jim VH and BillM took over 4 pages of notes each most points were posted on the UGN ML this morning

{donna} kosh,im cooking a roast come on over :)

{Kosh} donna: oh sure... just let me book a flight ;o)

{snapper} roast roo ?

{ThreeSEAS} Truth is about moving forward: We have the knowhow and ability to move forward right now and have had it for the last couple years.

{Kosh} donna: I should be there by tomorrow some time ;o)

{donna} snappper,no sheep

{DZ} Sc00by: Was anything said by them to you about how the community can help immediately?

{donna} kosh,cool ,i will keep it hot for ya

{Kosh} donna: Sure

{Kosh} donna: Oh wait, I have to withdraw some of the infinite ammount of money in my bank account first

{ThreeSEAS} The reason why we have not moved forward is because it's an open forward move that to many want to apply closed business model methodology to, to own and control IP

{donna} kosh,heh

{Sc00by} in that room, we each got the feeling that we were presenting feedback that came as somewhat of a surprise to JimC. A lot of "we will do this" (bulleted on the ML post) which was confirmed as a direct "we will do this" by BillM and Darreck Sunday morning.

{ThreeSEAS} Even Jim himself mentioned concern about protecting Amiga over then next ten years via IP

{Sc00by} DZ: yeah, start reaching out to those who have left and make sure that they at least remember we're here.

{Sc00by} I am supposed to start working closely with Darreck and Bill to make it happen.

{ThreeSEAS} Amigasoft 4.0 is expermental for the ole reason of doing enough wrong but enough right to put clamps or holds on base methodology.

{donna} hahahah

{ThreeSEAS} ole = sole

{donna} sory

{donna} sorry

{donna} heh

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{DZ} Sc00by: Will Amiga Inc. be providing any assistance in the form of news, press releases, specs to help us evangelize to the lost souls out there?

* Sc00by is reassured that Tim Rue will never be happy.

{Cryo} "AmigaSoft" is just.. wrong

{ThreeSEAS} Rebol is financed by ------ ta da --- Gateway board members

{Cryo} AmigaOS would have been fine to stick with.

{Sc00by} DZ: yes, that was a major point of that meeting, as well as developer and User Group programs designed to keep people interested.

{ThreeSEAS} Put the peices together

* donna shuts up about the amiga

{DZ} Sc00by: We need to put some structure around this evangelizing. I sent a few ideas to Bill M and he responded with an encouraging note, but we need to become organized somehow!

{Sc00by} Cryo: no, it wouldn't because it shortlines classic development.

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{Sc00by} DZ: get on the ML and point them out, we'll get them into the list

{Cryo} it would if 5.0 was to run on classic

{DZ} Sc00by: Who should I be sending these ideas to if not Bill M?

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: be very careful about where you are geting ideas and inspiration from and passing along. It's a major fucking problem

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{Cryo} in much the same was a 1999 Mustang is different than the 1994 Mustang, per say

{DZ} Sc00by: which ML?

{Sc00by} Cryo: classic isn't supportable in the 5.0 arena.

{Sc00by} DZ: UGN News ML

{DZ} Sc00by: Much obliged .....

{Cryo} right, classic is dead

{Cryo} don't call the new thing an amiga :)

{donna} heh

{Dustbin} classic doesn't exist yet

{Sc00by} Cryo: not saying that, classic can go on for years.

{Sc00by} Cryo: which is why the name difference

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: you asked me for input. Now what the hell do you plan on doing with it?

{Cryo} why? they're building more?

{Sc00by} Cryo: you're all putting much too much into this name thing. Remember, "4.0 is renamed 4.0 because I decided that this morning - Jim Collas"

{donna} darx top talk

-Darxide- DudenTV (114) Cryo (96) spuug (71) Sc00by (65) frotz (62) ThreeSEAS (62) DZ (54)

{donna} darx top country

-Darxide- Net (10) Commercial (7) Organization (2) Canada (2) Greece (1) Netherlands (1) Iceland (1)

{Cryo} hmm, I should use longer sentences

{donna} no oz strange

{ThreeSEAS} DZ: what if all these pieces are originating from me, going thru many like yourself but as it's comming from other (not me).

{Cryo} sc00b, oh hell yeh.. that's really fucking reassuring

{Sc00by} Cryo: no, but the question isn't "how much longer can I use my classic Amiga?" The question is really "how much longer will I have a use for my classic Amiga?"

{ThreeSEAS} What happens to the big picture I'm communicating. What happens to credit due?

{Cryo} "Hi, I decided this morning while in the shower.. there will will be a 4.0 This is of course subject to change at any point" :)

«Quit» bolero_aw ( has signed off (kalisas nixta bye bye !! visit my web page -} **********GOODNIGHT ALL********** (Client Exit)).

{ThreeSEAS} And then there is playing ostrich. Right?

{Sc00by} Cryo: "It's good to be the king - Mel Brooks"

{Sc00by} big question: WTF difference does a name make?

«Quit» DrWho (MIKE@ has signed off (Read error to DrWho[]: Connection reset by peer).

{Cryo} sc00b.. oh now now.. if that were a logical analogy, there wouldn't be ANY in use today.. there are some people who use the Amiga because they LIKE to.. not because there's a specific need it can do that another machine can do. It may be slower, but they

{Cryo} 'll still use it.

{Cryo} "Piss boy! Oh piss boy!"

{ThreeSEAS} So why doesn't Jim Know?

{Sc00by} I really don't care what they call it, as long as it's along the same lines and built with the same priniciples in mind. Dr. H. gives me confidence that it will be.

{Cryo} Tim, about 12 years of Amiga history.

{DZ} ThreeSEAS: A community works together. I am not interested in "stealing" other peoples ideas nor take credit for their work. I seek only to contribute to this great project called the Amiga!

{frotz} cryo: right on. i prefer to use the amiga for animation work, i've used it for years. it's faster for some things. there'll always be some task that just worked "right" on the amiga and doesnt work at all on other platforms, you can think of them with very little effort.

{frotz} DZ: for a community, the amiga is more fraught with competing standards and companies trying to proprietize standards than the PC is.

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{snapper} DZ Then wave your phd in Havemose's face and quit whining

{donna} hi tecno

{Sc00by} frotz: not really, there are just more of them on the PC.

{Cryo} Havemose may have his head screwed on right.. I'll give him time to hang himself. He was from ESCO and came over for CATS, then did engineering.. he may be a gem.. he may be coal.. we'll see.

{Cryo} I've seen way too many people hang themselves with PhD's.

{Sc00by} Cryo: right, why not give them the benefit. After all, your current Amiga isn't deteriorating befgore your eyes.

{snapper} Cryo: He doesn't wear a tie ;)

{Sc00by} the only factor that people are really pissed about is time.

{Cryo} sc00b, I _am_ giving them the benefit. my concern is for legacy users and respect for the older Amiga world.

{Cryo} They bring out a machine that sucks.. it tarnishes everything that a lot of us worked hard for, and accepted as passing on.

{Sc00by} if Gateway hadn;t been screwing over the AI staff for two years, this would be a non-issue. Now, Gateway isn't truly involved.

{snapper} Then they'll always be pissd because no OS is ever finished ;)

{Sc00by} hey, I actually agree with snapper on something ;-)

{DZ} snapper: Sorry no phd here, I am a working man. . .

{Cryo} he has his moments.

{snapper} The dugs help ;)

{Dustbin} heheh ISP's quote file..

{snapper} drugs

{Dustbin} "FIRST LAW OF SOCIO-GENETICS: Celibacy is not hereditary."

{Sc00by} Cryo: a lot of people have pre-determined that the NG machine will suck.

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{SimD} nl :)

* snapper waves

{tecno} Hey donna

{newlook} sn :)

{SimD} cya s[nl]apper ;)

{tecno} Newlookie

{donna} hi tec

{Cryo} nothing Jim said led me to believe otherwise

{donna} simd

{Cryo} if he would have given SOME tidbit

{SimD} donna :)

{ThreeSEAS} Cryo: we can move forward, as we have been able to for the last several years, with new methodology on our current amigas.

{Cryo} some glint

{newlook} err simd even :)

{Cryo} some gleem in his eye

{Sc00by} Cryo: what did you want? blueprints?

{newlook} 'lo tecie

{snapper} ryo: They've pretty much spelled it all out....

* Dustbin grab the patch cord and the bass

{SimD} nl: heh :)

{Cryo} sure, but I try to be realistic.. I think it's gonna be more like Digital DNARD project before M$ killed it

{Sc00by} listen, I hate to, but I have a 7am meeting, so I'm off. DZ: get to the ML, and I'll see everyone later

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{HammerD} re maXX

{Cryo} hmm.. I think I figured out a new banner for A2K.. "Your show sucks if you don't have a guy in a cape show up."

{DZ} sc00by: already signed up!

{TheMaXX} hey Hammer!

{newlook} Das MaXx

{ThreeSEAS} Cool, screw me!

{donna} themaxx

{donna} hammerd

{snapper} Good ole Leo, ;)

«Quit» Sc00by ( has signed off (Read error to Sc00by[]: Connection reset by peer).

{TheMaXX} hey guys and donna :)

«Quit» Sid (root@ has signed off (Client exiting).

{Cryo} snapper, check the page out and let me know if you're going to attend.

{ThreeSEAS} this IRC log will be made available, thankyou.

{Cryo} log? bah, who cares

«Nick» Cryo is now known as TimRue.

{TimRue} I had sex with sheep

«Nick» TimRue is now known as Cryo.

{snapper} Cryo Attend what ? you mean leave the building ?

{donna} heh

{Cryo} snapper:

{TheMaXX} TimRue: sidewind will shear you if he gets wind of that :)

{ThreeSEAS} Lets' find out

{snapper} Cryo Don't know what that is, and probably can't be bothered now

{Cryo} or for the latest draft of the press release I should have out in the next 12-24 hours

{Cryo} it's a get together next year

{Cryo} and you're right.. we probably wouldn't want you there anyway :)

{Cryo} god damned tree hugging hippies.

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{HammerD} software failure on that site :)

{snapper} On the lawn in Los Gatos " ;)

«Nick» IRBaboon is now known as Aoenflux.

{Aoenflux} Hi all

{snapper} Cryo It's probably another west coast toke in eh....

{Cryo} snapper, where you get your drugs?

{Cryo} I just want to make sure I don't get my lines mixed with yours

{snapper} Cryo Shoppers Drug Mart ;)

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{Aoenflux} Has any one heard from paulN in the last day or so..

* Kreton finally has a legal net account

{snapper} Cryo Is Manny coming ? ;)

* newlook gets a laugh out of the UF Daily Static

{Aoenflux} okay bye all

{-- Aoenflux (flatstick@ has left this channel.

{Cryo} manny? I don't think anyone has replied